Spoilers Supergirl - Season 5

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by dahj, Jul 20, 2019.

  1. Kirk Prime

    Kirk Prime Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    This is beyond true. The best Superman story I have ever seen on TV was in the 96 animated series (Apokolips Now). The only regret I have about that series was such an awful final 2 parter.

    Maybe they should make a superhero show about superheroes and not because they are butthurt that Trump was the president for 4 or 8 years. The ratings tanked, the quality tanked, and the audience love for the characters tanked because a few writers were too insecure about Kara and needed to show that a white male could be taken down by their wokeness.
     
  2. The HorrOrville

    The HorrOrville Admiral Admiral

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    A show being woke is not going to die for being woke on CW. In fact that is part of the networks target audience. They have been able to carve out some success with it as well especially since they don't have the money to make these comic book shows compete with something on another network like say "Watchmen" which has a much bigger budget and can even get A to B-list actors to sign on. The show is ending because a combination of things. The main actress wants to be a mom and Superman is coming to the network and the ratings were going down when your expenses are going to start going up. Doesn't help that it hit a creative wall last year.

    Jason
     
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  3. Ovation

    Ovation Admiral Admiral

    So. Much. Yawn.
     
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  4. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Superboy 1988 is underrated.

    Individually it's a succession of camp awful, but altogether, it's a good story.
     
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  5. The Realist

    The Realist Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Thanks for volunteering as Exhibit A. :techman:
     
  6. The Realist

    The Realist Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, it's a really fun show. Sherman Howard is a scenery-devouring blast as Lex Luthor, and the wonderful Stacy Haiduk almost makes me hope it turns out to be the one universe where Lana doesn't end up eating Lois Lane's dust.
     
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If only Gerarad Christopher, had kept his mouth shut when they cast him in Lois and Clark.

    "You're Superman."

    "I'm Superman again."

    "What do you mean again?"
     
  8. Kirk Prime

    Kirk Prime Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Maybe that's a marketing foolishness, since clearly, based on the declining ratings that woke shows get, it's not that big of an audience, and it's a turnoff to the wider fanbase.

    I agree with you that the show is ending for a variety of reasons, but one of them is a declining audience which has been consistent since the show decided to be so annoyingly preachy.

    All of your reasons are legit.

    It was a very good show once it hit its stride in the second season. It really is a shame the show couldn't have kept going, but in fairness, the story had progressed to the point where it was time for Superman, and clearly that was not allowed. The show for me was most notable for the best version of Lana Lang ever, bar none.

    They should have gone for it. I enjoyed Dean Cain--I thought he brought to life a terrific Clark Kent, and his chemistry with Teri Hatcher was off the charts. But I also thought Gerard Christopher was very good as well, and would have loved to have seen the story continue.
     
  9. USS Firefly

    USS Firefly Commodore Commodore

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    That is the reason my wife and I gave up on Supergirl.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2020
  10. RandyS

    RandyS Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Its ironic for me to hear that he had been cast in LOIS & CLARK. I spent that first season wondering why he hadn't. The move from Superboy to Superman seemed like a logical progression. But all these years later I'm glad he wasn't. It took a little while, but Dean Cain eventually grew on me.
     
  11. RandyS

    RandyS Vice Admiral Admiral

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    SUPERBOY, for me, had the same problem that both LOIS & CLARK, and the Christopher Reeve films had. After two good seasons, it became mediocre.

    I agree with you about Lana Lang though. Stacy Haiduk played the best onscreen version we've had of the character so far. And I say that having nothing against either Annette O'Toole or Kristen Kruek. It was the writing, not their performances that did them in. particularly Kruek.
     
  12. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Wow, I feel the exact opposite. The first two seasons of Superboy were uneven and frequently dreadful, whereas the last two seasons were the best live-action DC series of the 20th century, with vastly improved writing and acting. Even the worst episodes of seasons 3-4 would be about average for season 2 and above average for season 1. (Incidentally, I'm currently posting reviews of season 1 on my Patreon page.)

    I do agree that Stacy Haiduk was a fantastic Lana. Her acting started out incredibly bad, like everything else about early season 1, but improved enormously until she was the best thing about the show on the whole (or at least competitive with Sherman Howard's often brilliant work as Lex Luthor). She was also staggeringly beautiful, every bit as much as Kristin Kreuk was.
     
  13. NoGrave Dug

    NoGrave Dug Admiral Admiral

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    IDK - my favorite interpretation of Superman starts at around 2:37 into the video (from JLU) below:
     
  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Yeah, the "World of Cardboard" speech. They touched on that in Superboy's last couple of seasons too. That was the first time I saw any Superman TV series really delve into his psychology and what it was like to be him. In what's probably the series's finest episode, "Mine Games," when Superboy and Lex are trapped together (with kryptonite) in a mine cave-in and confront each other verbally with greater depth than ever before, it gets to a point where Lex asks what Superboy really wants, and his answer is the chance to be normal -- "the freedom to compromise." It nicely made the point that someone as powerful as Superboy/man can never let himself be less than an absolute paragon of virtue, or he'd become a monster.
     
  15. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think that this is what will happen: Kara and Brainy (and maybe along with Lena, who as a scientist couldn't pass on this occasion to discover a new universe) will go to the future and will complete the Legion of Heroes and Alex will stay on NC as the new protector even if she will need more work to be up to the task, with the help of some other Superfriends. And Kara will be able to come and go between the present and the future to pay a visit to her family and friends and why not lend a hand when necessary.
     
  16. Kirk Prime

    Kirk Prime Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm not so sure about that. I think Superboy's worst season was its first, and the show then followed with 3 very strong seasons, with some of its best episodes, including the Roads episodes, which used concepts later reused in Sliders and in TNG's Parallels, as well as the 96 cartoon. I liked Annette O'Toole's Lana as well. In many ways, she was the basis for the Haiduk version. Haiduk was EXACTLY how Lana should be written and portrayed, and Haiduk had the look. Lana is a redhead, and I think that's an important trademark of her character. Kreuk's version to me started out pretty strong, be evolved into one of the most annoying characters on TV. I used to call her the world's most boring hot girl. The problem is that Clark and the show needed to move the story along, but refused because of the premise of a prequel. I actually thought Smallville improved dramatically when Kreuk left.

    I feel like I would need a Lois and Clark rewatch to really comment again about whether the show had a decline in Season 3. I remember loving the Lord Nor storyline, and I thought the show did a very good job of getting Lois and Clark married with Lois knowing everything while not losing the spirit of the show.

    In fairness, this is a followup to MY favorite part. But at about 4:14, they made a creative mistake in my opinion. Superman, especially with the history, should have won that fight outright. That would have been the payoff for all the misery Darkseid caused him, and of course the viewer. Darkseid is such a brilliant villain because not only can he match Superman physically, his psychological games can hurt him even more. Superman could ONLY beat Darkseid if he lets loose and doesn't hold back, which is very hard for him to do, and you have to REALLY piss him off. Darkseid doesn't need his physical strength to harm Superman because he is as evil as Superman is good. This scene was a climax and I feel they cheated the viewer out of Superman's victory, and also made Batman look ridiculous by having him avoid the omega beams. Sometimes they forget that Batman is human.
     
  17. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  18. RandyS

    RandyS Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not saying that SUPERBOY season 3 and 4 didn't have good individual episodes. Far from it. The examples you list are good ones. I love parralell universe stories. I just prefer the college setting of the first two years as opposed to the office setting of the last two.

    In the case of LOIS & CLARK, I thought the show degenerated into a soap opera in seasons 3 and 4 once Lois discovered Clark was Superman. I realize it was really supposed to be that all along, but it was really played up in the last two years to, in my opinion, the shows' detriment. That being said, LOIS & CLARK also had good individual episodes in its third and fourth years, such as their own parralell universe episodes (again, my favorite).
     
  19. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    The setting isn't as important to me as the quality of the writing. The first two seasons were frequently quite dumb and inept, and the plots were superficial, pure action with little character development. The latter two seasons (renamed The Adventures of Superboy, and practically a whole different show) were far more intelligent and really dove into the characters.

    Also, the treatment of Lana in season 2 was sexist as hell. I mean, I admit I loved how often they put her in bathing suits, but she was constantly being sexually objectified and harassed, both by the villains and by Clark's obnoxious new roommate, and it was tiresome. She got to be a much stronger, more dignified character in seasons 3-4.

    As far as the setting goes, I find it amusing that they were basically doing The X-Files before The X-Files existed. The set design for the Bureau of Extranormal Matters was also strikingly similar to Smallville's Daily Planet sets quite a few years later. I do wish they'd given the new supporting characters more development, though. It was nice that they finally had a regular black character, but he only got one focus episode in two years.



    Again, I think the key isn't the concept, but the quality of the execution. Seasons 3-4 were done by new showrunners who didn't seem to respect the material and turned it into a farce. If the same storyline had been done by season 1's showrunner, or even season 2's, it would've been much different from what we got, and probably somewhat better.

    Superboy changed showrunners in season 3 too, but in that case it was a change for the better.
     
  20. Kirk Prime

    Kirk Prime Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I guess that's fair. Hard to argue against an individual preference.

    Interesting take. I also felt that Superboy ended on a creative high and that the writers did respect what they were doing. I just wish it had a proper finale. I thought that was actually in the works, but L&C's existence made it impossible. There was a great website dedicated to Superboy, but I forget where it was and don't know if it still even exists. I do remember reading something about a potential season 5.