Spoilers Supergirl - Season 5

[TREK_GOD_1]

I really agree with the John Boyega stuff. Character wise he had the most interesting backstory of the new characters with the only one being close was Kylo Ren. They made him slight comic relief but didn't even really commit to even that and totally ignored his backstory as a Storm Trooper or the fact that the people who were recruited were people being exploited. Then for the third movie he is just tagging along doing nothing of interest at all. Rey was basically just stock action hero and Poe was a kind of less interesting Han Solo.


Jason

Boyega revealing how he was Disney/Lucasfilm's token black man was a long-needed land mine under the sickening arrogance of White Liberal Hollywood which used too many black actors as "diversity credit" but they have no intention of ever having them play characters who will be explored as they should be. Just show up and make them feel virtuous, because they do not understand writing for black characters, and it has been proven that they do not care to understand. This was the same treatment of Brooks / Olsen, and if there's one silver lining to Boyega's account going global, its that you might have more black performers stepping up before the contract is signed and making it clear that they are not the "pet n*****" / marginalized stereotype White Liberal Hollywood still loves to trot out.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The black experience in reality, is not the same thing at all, as the black experience a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.

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[theenglish]

Not so. They took a number of opportunities to acknowledge racial issues. Notably, in the first-season episode where James hung up a car as a "punching bag" for Supergirl to work out her anger issues, he talked about how he wasn't free to express his anger in public like a white man would be, for fear of getting shot by the cops. And in the story arc about his decision to unmask as Guardian, part of what factored into his decision was the importance of presenting himself as a positive role model for black kids.

But neither was he defined exclusively as "the black guy," so it didn't come up in situations where it wasn't relevant, which would ideally be most situations.

The two examples you are citing are relatively isolated from the other episodes. Overall, week to week, he could just be anybody unless plot called for a statement. I really liked the character and think that, like Winn, he got shifted to the background and really could have been anybody much of the time.

 

[Christopher]

Overall, week to week, he could just be anybody unless plot called for a statement.

Yes, and that's called not being racist. A person's ethnicity is just one part of who they are, one facet out of many. It's not something you go out of your way to call attention to every single goddamn week whether it's relevant or not. What do you think equality means???

And how is Supergirl's approach to James's ethnicity any different from its approach to J'onn's, or The Flash's approach to the West family's, or Arrow's approach to Diggle's and Curtis's, or Legends' approach to Amaya's or Charlie's or Astra's?

 

[Kirk Prime]

Yes, and that's called not being racist. A person's ethnicity is just one part of who they are, one facet out of many. It's not something you go out of your way to call attention to every single goddamn week whether it's relevant or not. What do you think equality means???

Yet that's exactly what happens when Hollywood shoves their tokenism and wokeness down people's throats. It's racist, and they are too arrogant to get it.

 

[Tuskin38]

And how is Supergirl's approach to James's ethnicity any different from its approach to J'onn's, or The Flash's approach to the West family's, or Arrow's approach to Diggle's and Curtis's, or Legends' approach to Amaya's or Charlie's or Astra's?

Or to bring Star Trek into this, Sisko.

His ethnicity came up a handful of times when it was important, but wasn't the focus of every single episode.

Meanwhile Burnham I don't think it has ever been brought up at all in the show? Maybe when she mentions the story of the girl who made the stars.

Yet that's exactly what happens when Hollywood shoves their tokenism and wokeness down people's throats. It's racist, and they are too arrogant to get it.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

The two examples you are citing are relatively isolated from the other episodes. Overall, week to week, he could just be anybody unless plot called for a statement. I really liked the character and think that, like Winn, he got shifted to the background and really could have been anybody much of the time.

He could have been anybody because the showrunners never had any intention of addressing who he is at all. He was just a token.

...and now for something as incredibly offensive as one can imagine:

Yes, and that's called not being racist. A person's ethnicity is just one part of who they are, one facet out of many. It's not something you go out of your way to call attention to every single goddamn week whether it's relevant or not. What do you think equality means???

You have no damned idea what you are talking about, Christopher. Its clear you will say anything to defend this series, and you are utterly ignorant of how a black male character should be treated / presented, what his experiences / perspective would be (as a mirror / comment of real life), and how his race informs his worldview--day after day, from his own perspective and the way he experiences and reacts to the perception of those not of his race. It is your kind of dismissive, uninformed belief that has black actors (and audiences) up in arms about the way their characters are often tokens for white liberal Hollywood and nothing else. It is the reason Black Lightning--a show developed and run not by Berlanti so effortlessly gets it right in nearly every kind of representation of the black experience (no matter the sociopolitical differences in the characters), but Supergirl did not as a conscious decision over five seasons.

A person's ethnicity is just one part of who they are, one facet out of many. It's not something you go out of your way to call attention to every single goddamn week whether it's relevant or not

Posted like one who sits on your Pseudo-progressive (when it comes to a black character) White Throne of Judgement (protecting an inexcusable act of tokenism) allows you to make that astoundingly insulting statement. You are in no position to ever make that kind of judgement about how a black character should be presented, or what his world view is. Like the Star Trek Discovery situation with white writers screamed to HR about black Walter Mosley's use of the "N-word" in reference to a personal experience, or the modern day minstrel treatment of Finn (and Boyega) in the Star Wars sequels, the problem was and will always be those who waste no time crying from that aforementioned throne about how "progressive" they are actually earning their place among the worst of the smothering "I'm white and I say so" culture and system.

You dare ask him "What do you think equality means???" The better question is "Who the hell do you think you are???"

No need to unicycle around with a Cirque du Soleil level of hollow defenses / excuses. It has been answered.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Jimmy doesn't exist any more, because there are no dupicates.

Jimillah Olsen is the only Jimmy on Earth Prime... And she may be Guardian, and Lena Luthor's ex girlfriend?

Which means that Alex is no longer the break out lesbian character.

 

[Dick Whitman]

David Harewood shared on both Twitter and Instagram that yesterday was the first day of filming of the new season.

 

[theenglish]

Yes, and that's called not being racist. A person's ethnicity is just one part of who they are, one facet out of many. It's not something you go out of your way to call attention to every single goddamn week whether it's relevant or not. What do you think equality means???

And how is Supergirl's approach to James's ethnicity any different from its approach to J'onn's, or The Flash's approach to the West family's, or Arrow's approach to Diggle's and Curtis's, or Legends' approach to Amaya's or Charlie's or Astra's?

With all due respect Christopher, you are coming from a place of privilege in your position. The problem is that James was only ever a two dimensional character on the series. Even Winn had more character development. Supergirl attempted to address certain racial issues with James Olsen and doing so opened a door and it became obvious that James' was never going to be a three dimensional character. All the other characters in the CW you mentioned, are fully developed characters--James Olsen never got that opportunity. I love the Supergirl series, but once James ceased to be a possible romantic interest for Kara it became obvious that that was his sole purpose on the show and subsequent seasons showed writers obviously trying to find a place for him.

Somebody in this thread made a comparison to Michael Burnham--that character doesn't count as an example because Trek has always existed in a post-racial society. Racism is addressed by allegory in that world and aliens or androids have always been stand ins for our contemporary issues. I'd like to state that I think that Michael is one of my favorite Trek characters up there with Kirk, Spock, Picard, and Sisko--but that would be a thread for a different forum.

 

[Christopher]

The problem is that James was only ever a two dimensional character on the series. Even Winn had more character development. Supergirl attempted to address certain racial issues with James Olsen and doing so opened a door and it became obvious that James' was never going to be a three dimensional character.

You still haven't answered my question. Even if they did have issues figuring out what to do with James, how does it make sense to assume that had something to do with his race? As I said, look at the rest of the franchise and how many effectively portrayed characters of color it has. Not every writing problem with a character who happens to be black is connected to their ethnicity.

Supergirl has also addressed racial issues through J'onn and his father, even though they're Martians whose blackness is an adopted identity. IIRC, that's because David Harewood thought it was important to comment on such things and the writers obliged. I'd imagine much the same was true with Mehcad Brooks.

If you ask me, the real problem with James is that they lost Calista Flockhart when they moved to Vancouver and made the decision to promote James into the executive role. That was an artificial change that didn't come from his character's own dynamics, so it put him a role that wasn't ideal for him, and that's why they struggled to use him well. Still, I don't think I'd agree he was two-dimensional. If anything, he had too many facets as they tried to find new arcs for him -- photojournalist, executive, vigilante, Lena's boyfriend, Kelly's brother, etc.

 

[JD]

He could have been anybody because the showrunners never had any intention of addressing who he is at all. He was just a token.

While I still disagree with you on certain elements of the Finn issue, thinking back I can see your point with James. It's especially sad that things turned out that way with him, when the shows has dealt so much better with other issues with characters like Nia, and Alex.

 

[Jayson1]

I disagree with one idea and that is Winn got more development than Olson. I think he might of gotten the biggest shaft of them all. He started out as Kara's best friend and eventually just became a one note comic relief tech guy. I actually wished they had explored him and James as teammates where Olson was being The Guardian. In fact the idea of him replacing Grant being a problem does make sense to me as well.

I recall at the time when she left saying they should have made Lena the boss. This would have allowed him more time to be a hero. You know I also kind of wonder if they might eventually bring the character back on the Superman show and basically develop him better.


Jason

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

With all due respect Christopher, you are coming from a place of privilege in your position.

Better known as arrogant white liberalism / "I'm White and I Say So" / "We Know Best" views from that throne. It the reason anyone not remotely knowledgeable about what is a strong representation of the black story/situation would refer to the hair-thin (and wrongheaded) J'onn character assuming a black identity, when that is merely a shell and cannot possibly give him insight--that blood legacy--of what living as a black man is. But leave it to the deliberately racially insensitive showrunners (and their like-minded defenders among the audience) to think an alien adopting a shell he can dump at any time (thus, he will never be forced to endure a lifetime of issues black people cannot run away from) is some great representation or insight into the black experience.

The problem is that James was only ever a two dimensional character on the series. Even Winn had more character development. Supergirl attempted to address certain racial issues with James Olsen and doing so opened a door and it became obvious that James' was never going to be a three dimensional character.

The alleged racial issues were nothing more than the showrunners checking a would-be progressive box as part of their using Olsen as a token. There is a reason the black characters--especially the black males--of Black Lightning are so fleshed out and realistically represent many of the sociopolitical issues black people live with, while Supergirl failed miserably: one set of showrunners/writers actually know what they're talking about, while the other series' showrunners/writers clearly resented the idea of exploring the black male reality, which was clear as day.

... but a certain person clinging to his offensive protection of the way Supergirl mishandled Olsen is not only a position mired in that "I'm White and I Say So" arrogance, but feeling his ass is planted so firmly on that throne, that he can push any of this series offensive handling of black male characters as anything positive.

While I still disagree with you on certain elements of the Finn issue, thinking back I can see your point with James. It's especially sad that things turned out that way with him, when the shows has dealt so much better with other issues with characters like Nia, and Alex.

Nia and Alex are part of the showrunners' genuine concern and it has always been that way no matter when a character was introduced. The black issue was never their concern, and the results stand as evidence of that fact.

 

[PiotrB]

Like the Star Trek Discovery situation with white writers screamed to HR about black Walter Mosley's use of the "N-word" in reference to a personal experience

If you have not been an HR employee dealing with the case, you cannot know the skin colour of the person filing the complaint or his or her job.

 

[Christopher]

If you have not been an HR employee dealing with the case, you cannot know the skin colour of the reporter or his or her job.

Umm, Walter Mosley is a very famous African-American novelist and screenwriter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Mosley

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/06/opinion/sunday/walter-mosley.html

 

[PiotrB]

Umm, Walter Mosley is a very famous African-American novelist and screenwriter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Mosley

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/06/opinion/sunday/walter-mosley.html

I am sorry but I do not understand your post because I have not written anything about this person. So I don't know where the idea of explaining who W. Mosley is came from. I was writing about a person who made a complaint to HR.

 

[Tuskin38]

Umm, Walter Mosley is a very famous African-American novelist and screenwriter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Mosley

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/06/opinion/sunday/walter-mosley.html

PiotrB was referring to the ethnicity of the person filing the complaint, not Mr. Mosley.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

If you have not been an HR employee dealing with the case, you cannot know the skin colour of the person filing the complaint or his or her job.

Wrong.

Mosely on the incident:

"I’d been in the new room for a few weeks when I got the call from human resources. A pleasant-sounding young man said, 'Mr. Mosley, it has been reported that you used the n-word in the writers’ room,'" Mosley wrote in the Times. "I replied, 'I am the N-word in the writers’ room.'

There's no mystery to what he's saying--he was the only black person in that writer's room. Let's get this clear: when a black man says something like that, he usually means he's in an environment where its populated by white people (which he would not say if the room had other black people in it--or any other non-white people for that matter).

Mosley went on to say:

"There I was, a black man in America who shares with millions of others the history of racism. And more often than not, treated as subhuman," he continued. "If addressed at all that history had to be rendered in words my employers regarded as acceptable."

Yes--they had to define his personal story, one which is part of a horrible legacy for black people which no one has the right to approve or disapprove of regarding his recalling a personal experience.

"There I was being chastised for criticizing the word that oppressed me and mine for centuries"

There's no countering position for this.

 

[PiotrB]

Wrong.

Mosely on the incident:



There's no mystery to what he's saying--he was the only black person in that writer's room. Let's get this clear: when a black man says something like that, he usually means he's in an environment where its populated by white people (which he would not say if the room had other black people in it--or any other non-white people for that matter).

Mosley went on to say:


Yes--they had to define his personal story, one which is part of a horrible legacy for black people which no one has the right to approve or disapprove of regarding his recalling a personal experience.



There's no countering position for this.

You over interpret the words of W. Mosley. He does not claim that he was the only black person on the position of a scriptwriter because he was not (Alan B. McElroy). Besides, such a complaint could be made by literally everybody. Even the intern responsible for the coffee.