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Spoilers Supergirl - Season 1

Those people in that vid are seriously over the top.

Yes--and they are not alone in the extreme hate aimed at the Brooks version of the Olsen character.

I just don't like the constant referencing back to Superman every time he gives Kara advice. On reflection the show to a point is in Superman's shadow. And i think thats where the dislike mainly stems from.

One, James has years of experience--his own and that shared with Superman, so its only natural that he talks to an unsure Kryptonian by referencing another--her cousin. If she cannot break out of the shadow of all fans know about Superman, then that is a failing of the writers--which stems from the source (Supergirl) never having much of her own legendary legacy to build on.

This obviously is the fault of writers not brave enough to make Supergirl her own standout character.

Agreed.

Two, the Superman issue is not the reason for the hatred of James--it all centered on James being the "wrong" version of James and an even larger "wrong" as Kara's love interest. If James had not romantic plots with Kara, this very vocal, ill-minded part of the SG fanbase would not say a word.


Not wild about the characterisation of Jimmy Olsen either, though not because of how it departs from some other version of Olsen, having never been invested in *any* incarnation of the character, but because he's been written as utterly bland. One note. Only there to create drama, without any real agency. Doesn't help that there's not much in the way of real chemistry between him and the star of the show.

James is not a flighty character from Glee. He's an adult--and so is Kara. He's also Superman's best friend, so when he moved to her city, he already knew who Kara was, but no matter the mutual attraction, he was not going to act on anything until he was sure of his feelings. The season has suffered some bumps in the development of the James/Kara relationship (centered on the unnecessary Lucy subplot), but overall, it had to move at a more realistic pace, than the usual "will they/won't they--jumping each others' bones" quick pairing seen on too many series over the decades.

Personally I'm hoping the show gets retooled for season 2. There's some things that work very well, some things not so much and others they'd be better off just dropping altogether. The worst part of it is that the major components of the show just don't fit together very well.

The Berlanti team's sloppy or weak writing is the biggest culprit, with Supergirl often making bad decisions, or some of the supporting characters placed in situations that breaks credibility. Now that the 1st season is over, as you say, some retooling is needed, and that should start with SG not acting like she's stumbling through life.
 
Barry Allen is Joe West's adopted son, so Iris is technically his adoptive sister, exactly as Alex is Kara's adoptive sister.

Still, it seems that Barry and Iris never really thought of each other as siblings, and the show's never really treated them that way. By contrast, Kara and Alex very much do consider each other sisters, and that sororal relationship is central to the show. So it wouldn't make any sense to change that to a romantic relationship. That would be just as wrong as having J'onn and Alex end up together, given that J'onn sees Alex and Kara as his surrogate daughters. (Now, J'onn and Eliza could work, if Jeremiah weren't still alive...)

Its nothing alike at all. Barry was never adopted. Joe was his legal guardian, that is all. His relationship with Iris predated any familial-like connections. He had a relationship with his father in prison. He remained an Allen. There has never been any legal family connection between Barry and Iris. Iris was just a housemate down the hall.
 
I think doylem1 was referring to James 'constantly referencing' Superman when giving advice. Personally, I think it makes sense for James to do so, though. His main identity for years has been 'Superman's pal,' and he is now old enough and experienced enough to provide Superman's perspective on what Kara is going through.

Sharp points.
 
Tom Welling is the only alumni left and available. I always thought he made a good Clark, even though I never though much of the show.

They don't need an alumnus. Gimmick casting is cute, but hardly a requirement. They didn't cast Michael Ironside as General Lane or Tracy Scoggins as Cat Grant.

Its nothing alike at all. Barry was never adopted. Joe was his legal guardian, that is all. His relationship with Iris predated any familial-like connections. He had a relationship with his father in prison. He remained an Allen. There has never been any legal family connection between Barry and Iris. Iris was just a housemate down the hall.

Well, yes and no. Granted, I was incorrect about the adoption; Barry was Joe's foster son instead. But it's been made clear many times that Joe considers Barry to be his son and Barry thinks of Joe as a father (and the fact that he has another father doesn't preclude that).
 
No, they definitely have a father-son type relationship, but that is just a personal bond between them, and doesn't really carry over to his separate, pre-existing bond with Iris. He never looked at Iris like a sister, and neither has any legal entity. Just clarifying.
 
Yes, I agree where Barry/Iris vs. Kara/Alex is concerned. I just disagree with the claim that Barry's overall situation is fundamentally unlike Kara's. They're very similar in a lot of ways, but not in every way, and certainly not in a way that would make a Kara-Alex romance a remotely viable prospect.
 
In The Flash, it's always been quite clear that Barry was always attracted to Iris and Iris grew to think of Barry as a friend/brother. He is in the ultimate version of the friend zone, but there is nothing creepy about his feelings for Iris.

Regarding this James Olsen thing. This thread is the first I heard of this attitude and frankly it comes across as more than a little racist. It reminds me of Obama haters or those who criticized a certain Human Torch casting last year. People come up with a thousand reasons why the actor/character is not written correctly--but if it had been a white actor in the role then I'm sure we wouldn't be seeing this attitude.

The character himself is designed well, even though he may have been written poorly in individual episodes. He is an older version of the Jimmy Olsen we've seen before. He's more experienced and more sure of himself. He's attracted to Kara but he's also mature enough to understand that coming on too strong with her would be placing himself in an improper position of power over a younger woman. So he resists his desires, even to himself, by trying to choose the logical, older woman. Even when he knew she was attracted to him and Lucy was gone he still understood that she was younger and needed time/space to grow. I think he shows strong moral and ethical integrity.

He helps Kara through his years of experience working with her cousin--and those years of experience are nicely outlined in the series in the sense that it is obvious that James was a trusted confidante, friend, and partner of Superman. So much so that Kal-El asked James to become a mentor to Kara.

What was also nice about the relationship was that Kara made her choice to be with James after she had been given the time to gain her self-esteem and confidence.

This show has certainly done a nice job of showing strong women who are also allowed to react "normally" to life circumstances. It has also done a great job of showing men acting maturely and treating women as equal partners in life.

I could also mention Winn's mature reaction, after an initial distraught outburst, to being rejected by Kara. The show did a good job of showing him overcoming his feelings and accepting Kara as a friend.
 
Just watched the finale and enjoyed, enjoyed the show a whole lot more than I thought I would have last summer when the commercials started running for it (especially since it almost note-for-note mirrored the SNL "Black Widow Movie" parody trailer. )

And love the show's use of MM and even Superman (the "Boots of Steel" were a bit silly, but the texts we see from Clark are really an awesome "use" of Superman; one that gets him much more than the Snyder movies.)

I will admit to being somewhat taken aback when we're told Kara couldn't operate in space, I was expecting her to be able to on some level since.... What was Alex basing this on? But, fine, in the SG universe Kryptonians can't survive in space without equipment. Fine. Whateves.

Cat Grant finally came around to me , a bit, but I wonder how Kara having her own office is going to impact the story-telling at work since most scenes would still have to take place in the main "war room" for the office building instead of Kara's puny little office.

I lied the final scene with MM being part of the "family" in the final dinner; I would have expected a resolution to he arc with Pappa Danvers, but maybe next season? What's in the pod? 10% chance - Power Girl. 15%- Comet the Super Horse, 30% a love interest from Krypton to get in the way of the Kara/Jimmy relationship (more-or-less kept unconscious in stasis but has aged in the intervening time while being "taught" things through Kryptnology) 25% chance a "Superboy", 20% chance something we cannot predict.

I really hope we get a second season which, I feel, is pretty likely.

This thread: Pain in the ass to read since it really feels more like haters are posting just to nitpick and tear down the show over petty things. (Oh no! A weekly TV series that has to have speical effects in every episode on the time/budget limitations of a network show doesn't have Hollywood Blockbuster level effects!)
 
iler. )
I will admit to being somewhat taken aback when we're told Kara couldn't operate in space, I was expecting her to be able to on some level since.... What was Alex basing this on? But, fine, in the SG universe Kryptonians can't survive in space without equipment. Fine. Whateves.

What's in the pod? 10% chance - Power Girl. 15%- Comet the Super Horse, 30% a love interest from Krypton to get in the way of the Kara/Jimmy relationship (more-or-less kept unconscious in stasis but has aged in the intervening time while being "taught" things through Kryptnology) 25% chance a "Superboy", 20% chance something we cannot predict.

The space issue reminded me a bit of Byrne's depowered Superman era where he needed some sort of protection to operate in space.

As for the pod, I'm still going with Krypto!
 
Since and Cadmus is in play for next season I hope they borrow from Kirby's Jimmy Olsen run. Jimmy was pretty cool in that. Hopefully Cadmus wont be villains as they have been in recent comics.
 
In The Flash, it's always been quite clear that Barry was always attracted to Iris and Iris grew to think of Barry as a friend/brother. He is in the ultimate version of the friend zone, but there is nothing creepy about his feelings for Iris.

Regarding this James Olsen thing. This thread is the first I heard of this attitude and frankly it comes across as more than a little racist. It reminds me of Obama haters or those who criticized a certain Human Torch casting last year. People come up with a thousand reasons why the actor/character is not written correctly--but if it had been a white actor in the role then I'm sure we wouldn't be seeing this attitude.

The character himself is designed well, even though he may have been written poorly in individual episodes. He is an older version of the Jimmy Olsen we've seen before. He's more experienced and more sure of himself. He's attracted to Kara but he's also mature enough to understand that coming on too strong with her would be placing himself in an improper position of power over a younger woman. So he resists his desires, even to himself, by trying to choose the logical, older woman. Even when he knew she was attracted to him and Lucy was gone he still understood that she was younger and needed time/space to grow. I think he shows strong moral and ethical integrity.

He helps Kara through his years of experience working with her cousin--and those years of experience are nicely outlined in the series in the sense that it is obvious that James was a trusted confidante, friend, and partner of Superman. So much so that Kal-El asked James to become a mentor to Kara.

What was also nice about the relationship was that Kara made her choice to be with James after she had been given the time to gain her self-esteem and confidence.

This show has certainly done a nice job of showing strong women who are also allowed to react "normally" to life circumstances. It has also done a great job of showing men acting maturely and treating women as equal partners in life.

I could also mention Winn's mature reaction, after an initial distraught outburst, to being rejected by Kara. The show did a good job of showing him overcoming his feelings and accepting Kara as a friend.

Wanting something to stay true to the source material is not racist, and I'm honestly offended by your insinuations here. It has nothing to do with race, or Obama, or any of the other stuff you tacked on. Don't change things just for the sake of "diversity" and political correctness. If they want a character with certain qualities - CREATE ONE...John Stewart is great; they didn't just turn Hal Jordan black, for instance. (Yes, I am an old school Wally West fan.)
 
Since and Cadmus is in play for next season I hope they borrow from Kirby's Jimmy Olsen run. Jimmy was pretty cool in that. Hopefully Cadmus wont be villains as they have been in recent comics.

Personally, I'm hoping for a Cadmus Kon-El/Connor Kent Superboy clone in the jacket storyline developing next season. Honestly, with a Hank Henshaw, and a Dean Cain corpse, the odds of getting the real Cyborg Superman going is pretty good. If this show really wants to get rid of Superman for awhile, they are pretty decently set up for Reign of the Supermen, already.... they could easily run the narrative through Kara, and have pretty damn good versions of all 4 of them. (A guy in an ironman suit, the cadmus clone, the cyborg, and some kryptonian tech/eradicator bit)....
 
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Wanting something to stay true to the source material is not racist, and I'm honestly offended by your insinuations here. It has nothing to do with race, or Obama, or any of the other stuff you tacked on. Don't change things just for the sake of "diversity" and political correctness. If they want a character with certain qualities - CREATE ONE...John Stewart is great; they didn't just turn Hal Jordan black, for instance. (Yes, I am an old school Wally West fan.)
You have every right to be offended--doesn't change what I stated--and I don't want to get this off track so if you want to discuss that opinion, I suggest opening a separate thread about remaining true to the source material in general. I'd be happy to debate that issue there--perhaps the Neutral Zone?
 
Regarding this James Olsen thing. This thread is the first I heard of this attitude and frankly it comes across as more than a little racist. It reminds me of Obama haters or those who criticized a certain Human Torch casting last year. People come up with a thousand reasons why the actor/character is not written correctly--but if it had been a white actor in the role then I'm sure we wouldn't be seeing this attitude.

All true--the casting, the "the characters and actors have no chemistry" all fall into the not so hidden category of code words for the deep vitriol reserved for James / Brooks. Despite the series clearly developing Winn as a man in the "friendzone," the Flash or Benoist's husband's one-off appearance (in the end, playing more as actors knowing they are working together than the characters in a relationship), this group of SG fans screams about how great either would be instead of James, for the reasons you cite.

Its so telling: for many of the Berlanti series fans, they are well aware of / likely agree with his social / political beliefs, and believe they are the most liberal minded people on earth (like many fans of so-called "geek" media) yet the anti-James sentiments prove--as always--that there's one issue they resent as much as those they consider their ideological opposites.

The character himself is designed well, even though he may have been written poorly in individual episodes. He is an older version of the Jimmy Olsen we've seen before. He's more experienced and more sure of himself. He's attracted to Kara but he's also mature enough to understand that coming on too strong with her would be placing himself in an improper position of power over a younger woman. So he resists his desires, even to himself, by trying to choose the logical, older woman. Even when he knew she was attracted to him and Lucy was gone he still understood that she was younger and needed time/space to grow. I think he shows strong moral and ethical integrity.

He helps Kara through his years of experience working with her cousin--and those years of experience are nicely outlined in the series in the sense that it is obvious that James was a trusted confidante, friend, and partner of Superman. So much so that Kal-El asked James to become a mentor to Kara.

What was also nice about the relationship was that Kara made her choice to be with James after she had been given the time to gain her self-esteem and confidence.

Many good points--and their relationship took time as it would in real life--there's no rushing just to get the impatient audience off. The most important building block for a potential season two is that Kara and James--the latter being not just love interest, but a moral compass--continue to mature, as the other arcs (such as Cadmus) take that same path (in theory).



I could also mention Winn's mature reaction, after an initial distraught outburst, to being rejected by Kara. The show did a good job of showing him overcoming his feelings and accepting Kara as a friend.

He was meant to be in the "friendzone," all along, but now that Banshee is out of his life (or seems to be), i hope the producers do not push him back to pining away for Kara. That was a tiresome plot 5 minutes into it.
 
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Regarding this James Olsen thing. This thread is the first I heard of this attitude and frankly it comes across as more than a little racist. It reminds me of Obama haters or those who criticized a certain Human Torch casting last year. People come up with a thousand reasons why the actor/character is not written correctly--but if it had been a white actor in the role then I'm sure we wouldn't be seeing this attitude.

Well, yes and no. There are certainly some people who react that way, unfortunately, but that's not the only issue. Given that many prior screen adaptations have tended to create the impression of Jimmy as a nerdy, goofy cub reporter, I can understand why this more mature, accomplished version of the character -- one who's actually closer to Jimmy's comics roots in many ways -- would seem unfamiliar to many people who know the character only from the screen. I think a lot of people would be having an issue with that regardless of the casting. I'm sure that some of them are using it as a cover for a racist reaction, so that can blur the issue, but I don't think it's fair to assume that's true of everyone who finds this version of the character unfamiliar.

He's attracted to Kara but he's also mature enough to understand that coming on too strong with her would be placing himself in an improper position of power over a younger woman.

Huh? I don't think Kara is in any way the less powerful one in this situation. Remember the red kryptonite episode, when she was dragging him roughly onto the dance floor and practically molesting him? He would've been totally powerless to stop her. And her recollection of that incident is probably part of why, in the finale, she stressed that she was "all about consent" with regards to their earlier kiss. Given how much stronger she is than everyone else, that's something she'd have good reason to be very sensitive to.


I will admit to being somewhat taken aback when we're told Kara couldn't operate in space, I was expecting her to be able to on some level since.... What was Alex basing this on?

Superman's been operating for over a dozen years, and the DEO has been studying him, directly or from a remove, that whole time. He's probably had the opportunity to discover what he could and couldn't do in space, either by intentionally testing it or by accident. (I heard about a scene in the latest issue of a comic called Superman: American Alien, exploring Clark's early days as Superman, where he accidentally gets blown into space and needs to be rescued by a couple of passing Green Lanterns.) And scientific study of Kryptonian abilities could define how they work and what their limitations would be.

Although, if you'll remember... "Solitude" showed us that Superman has a Legion of Super Heroes flight ring in the Fortress. Legion flight rings let people fly in space.


Cat Grant finally came around to me , a bit, but I wonder how Kara having her own office is going to impact the story-telling at work since most scenes would still have to take place in the main "war room" for the office building instead of Kara's puny little office.

I assume Kara's office will take over the story function of the vacant upstairs office where Kara, Winn, and James have been having their confabs all season (as well as the occasional speedster-delivered ice cream cones). In fact, it looked to me like it was probably a redress of the same set.


Personally, I'm hoping for a Cadmus Kon-El/Connor Kent Superboy clone in the jacket storyline develops next season.

Honestly, from what I've seen of the clone Superboy, he's kind of a jerk. I never liked him much. The angry-young-man version on Young Justice was a little better, but not by much.
 
My familiarity with him was from the 90s run, and I always rather liked the character.... he was definitely rough around the edges and brash but had a heart of gold. Don't know what they may have done to the character since, though.... Young Justice is one of the few DC properties I have to watch still, so I can't comment on that one.
 
Young Justice took its basis more from a slightly retooled version of the 90s Connor for the 00s Teen Titans run. He was generally angrier and more conflicted about his clone nature particularly once he found out more about his origins (tied into Cadmus for the YJ cartoon, not sure about the TT comics).

I loved him from Young Justice - kind of a jerk and moody, but incredibly good-hearted once he got to know people. His developing relationship with Miss Martian and (such as it was) with Superman was well-done. But I could praise that show for days. :lol:

I think it's really weird to hear people assuming that criticism of James Olsen is based in racism. I certainly wouldn't want to get rid of him and he's a good guy but frankly he's rather boring. It's almost certainly the writing because there's moments where he's very good. Same with Winn though.
 
Ealier today I muddled up, accidentally conflated the two words ageism and racism.

Rageism.

One more time, I find myself declaring to all that they should invest some time in viewing the Youtube channel Young Justice Abridged.

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Russian Superboy meets Teaparty Republican Superman at 24 minutes 20 seconds.

It's really funny. :D
 
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To be clear, there are far worse videos and posts, but I will not repost them here.

From your posts in this thread I kinda got the impression you don't enjoy watching this show all that much, so why on Earth are you also watching other people watch this show? :shrug:
 
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