Spoilers Supergirl - Season 1

[kirk55555]

And come on, Martian Manhunter? Who would have thought we would have ever gotten a live-action version of him? On TV no-less.

I was surprised to see MM on TV, I'll give you that. When I first saw him appear in Smallvile. In Supergirl I was surprised he was being used on the show, but having seen Smallville it wasn't surprising to see MM on live action TV. Heck, he first appeared in live action in the Justice League TV movie in the 90s, so Supergirl has the 3rd live action Martian Manhunter. There have been less live action Green Lantern's then there have been live action Martian Manhunters.

I'm still with this show and, hell, think it's treating the notion of a DC universe better than the movies are. We've only seen Superman as a silhouetted figure and as texts and he feels more like Superman than the Superman in the movies.

Well, that is a very, very low bar, but technically true.

And, come on, who couldn't help but grin when it's revealed the door to the FoS is opened with a golden key made out of a very dense material?

I'm surprised it wasn't opened with a key Cat grant keeps with her. She's such a central character to the Supergirl Universe, I would have thought that they would have retconned the fortress into Cat's summer home that she rents to Superman

 

[dahj]

I'd say I'm surprised people are ranting about Cat for 5 pages now, right after an episode in which Cat was pretty much terrific, but considering which people are complaining, not really surprised at all...

 

[Trekker4747]

I was surprised to see MM on TV, I'll give you that. When I first saw him appear in Smallvile. In Supergirl I was surprised he was being used on the show, but having seen Smallville it wasn't surprising to see MM on live action TV. Heck, he first appeared in live action in the Justice League TV movie in the 90s, so Supergirl has the 3rd live action Martian Manhunter. There have been less live action Green Lantern's then there have been live action Martian Manhunters.

Well, for me, Smallville doesn't "entirely" count as they didn't fully use him. We never saw his "Martian" form and he was an in-and-out character in a handful of episodes. He was there, but more not there. As for the Live Action JL TV Movie from the 90s? The less said about it the better.

But, fine, we're finally getting a fully realized Martian Manhunter as a regular character in a weekly TV series with a budget and cast/crew/creative staff who cares.

I'd say I'm surprised people are ranting about Cat for 5 pages now, right after an episode in which Cat was pretty much terrific, but considering which people are complaining, not really surprised at all...

Not sure if you're talking about me, I've been mostly very positive about the show, but...

FWIW: I've not yet watched the latest episode. I doubt it alone will change my opinions of Cat, but you never know. I'm okay with her character more or less and she has grown since the pilot but, I dunno, she just doesn't entirely "feel like Cat Grant" to me whom I never took to be this Devil Wears Prada-esque steely bitch.

I'm more "accepting" now of Flockhart in the role than I was at the beginning, but I still don't think she's an ideal actress for the role (and I've no problems with Flockhart as an actress) and some of the problems I have with Cat could just stem from her performance.

I don't hate her character as she has indeed grown and changed and shown her moments of vulnerability and such but, eh. I think she's the one character in the series who could have been done better.

But I still enjoy the show a lot more than I thought I would. When I first heard about it I thought I would watch the pilot and laugh at it or just shake my head and frown at the silliness of it (this especially after that trailer for it that almost note-for-note went along with the SNL "Black Widow: Age of Me" trailer making fund of how a girl-hero movie would go) and maybe hate-watch it for a few episodes. But the first episode did really impress and got to me watch more and more of it and I ended up liking the series a lot more than I thought I would.

 

[Christopher]

Well, for me, Smallville doesn't "entirely" count as they didn't fully use him. We never saw his "Martian" form and he was an in-and-out character in a handful of episodes.

We did see his Martian form once, just briefly, for about a second (about 1:45 in the video). I think there may have been one more glimpse of it for a comparably brief time.

FWIW: I've not yet watched the latest episode. I doubt it alone will change my opinions of Cat, but you never know. I'm okay with her character more or less and she has grown since the pilot but, I dunno, she just doesn't entirely "feel like Cat Grant" to me whom I never took to be this Devil Wears Prada-esque steely bitch.

Well, it's a damn sight better than the Lois and Clark Cat Grant, who was a one-dimensional nymphomaniac joke character. There's nothing wrong with reinterpreting a character in an adaptation, so long as it's done well. And I think Flockhart's Cat is one of the best characters in the show. I love it that the mentor figure is allowed to be so flawed and un-idealized. In a way, she's not so different from Perry White, the archetype of the mean and terrifying boss who has a heart of gold and a strong moral center underneath.

 

[Arrrrgggh]

I dunno, she just doesn't entirely "feel like Cat Grant" to me whom I never took to be this Devil Wears Prada-esque steely bitch.

Yeah, I wonder where they got that crazy notion from. She's nothing like that in the comics.

 

[Guy Gardener]

We've never see Cat this successful before.

We're also used to seeing her much younger.

Actually?

Should Clark and Cat grant be around about the same age?

Calista is 51, how old is Cat?

But it's possible that we could be dealing with an Earth 2 looking like Superman on this word, also in his 50s, with enough grey in his hair to be worried,

 

[Trekker4747]

Yeah, I wonder where they got that crazy notion from. She's nothing like that in the comics.

Okay, those have her acting shallow and rude but not the Devil Wears Prada version we see in this show.

 

[DigificWriter]

We've never see Cat this successful before.

We're also used to seeing her much younger.

Actually?

Should Clark and Cat grant be around about the same age?

Calista is 51, how old is Cat?

But it's possible that we could be dealing with an Earth 2 looking like Superman on this word, also in his 50s, with enough grey in his hair to be worried,

Superman is 36 in the SG universe.

We don't know how old Cat is, but shes probably not as old as Calista.

 

[Romulan_spy]

I almost did not recognize Melissa Benoist on the Jimmy Fallon show. Melissa Benoist in real life seems very different from Kara. She seems super cool:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Yeah, I wonder where they got that crazy notion from. She's nothing like that in the comics.

I like that first link, I don't think I've ever seen the pull of cleavage on the male eyeline has ever been depicted visually before.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

TREK_GOD seems intent to,weekly, pick on the show for it s effects but for a weekly, network, TV series that has to do this level of effects in every episode I think they look TV-quality good.

So many would not complain about the FX if they were of a standard, strong quality.

I'm still with this show and, hell, think it's treating the notion of a DC universe better than the movies are.

That likely changes in a significant way come March 25th.

I'm surprised it wasn't opened with a key Cat grant keeps with her. She's such a central character to the Supergirl Universe, I would have thought that they would have retconned the fortress into Cat's summer home that she rents to Superman

You're not kidding. Cat is made to be something of a Jor-El of this series (as upside down as that is) in relation to Kara, that I would not be surprised if she suddenly turns up at the Fortress, cackling at holograms of Kryptonians.

 

[Trekker4747]

That likely changes in a significant way come March 25th.

I doubt it.

While I'm sure the movie will be enjoyable, action-filled and yadda yadda; it doesn't "feel like" DC to me. My entire feeling and point is that Supergirl feels like Supergirl and the "spirit" of the Super-family. Not dark, brooding and angsty but light and fun. Trying to better the world and those around them. Not, you know, punching people through buildings for several blocks and then snapping their necks. (Though I'm more "defensive" of the Zod neck-snap than most.)

So many would not complain about the FX if they were of a standard, strong quality.

It's a fucking network TV show, in it's first season, getting middling ratings that has to do this stuff on a weekly basis. It has to maintain a budget so, sorry, the effects aren't going to be ILM High-Caliber $250m budget movie quality.

You and I argued about this a few months ago comparing it to TWD, at that time TWD had the season opener featuring a lot of CGI work done to make the mega-herd with the walkers look bigger than their lot of extras. But that's one episode, maybe two or three where meaningful CGI was used to present this large herd. Then you look at the last two, or event three episodes that'be been very light when it comes to optical effects and it's all been makeup work on the extras.

This is all very different that a show that every week has to produce optical effects of Kara flying, or fighting super-powered beings, or super-powered beings doing super-stuff like dematerializing into pixels and flowing into/out of a phone; or stretching their arms to do the "turn both keys at once" thing.

I doubt anyone is watching this show expecting Hollywood, big-budget movie, caliber effects. Except for you and, maybe K5s.

Everyone else who is rational and realizes this is a TV show operating on budget knows the effects look decent for the budget and timetable we're working with.

Now, maybe it'll get a budget increase in the second season, allowing for better effects. Or there'll be more money to use since less of it was tied up in the "startup costs" of making the series.

Or, you know, maybe rationality will strike people and they won't expect movie-level effects in a weekly, network, TV series.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Superman is 36 in the SG universe.

We don't know how old Cat is, but shes probably not as old as Calista.

That's assuming that Kal-El was zero years old when they put him in the rocket.

In Superman the movie, that kid who walked out of the rocket and saved Glen Ford from getting crushed under his pickup truck (Ford on Ford violence?) had to be 3 or four, even though he was definitely a baby when they stuck him in the "rocket" so that was more about the duration of the trip to Earth, and Kara in the TV Show didn't appear to have grown at all while she was sleeping.

 

[Christopher]

While I'm sure the movie will be enjoyable, action-filled and yadda yadda; it doesn't "feel like" DC to me. My entire feeling and point is that Supergirl feels like Supergirl and the "spirit" of the Super-family. Not dark, brooding and angsty but light and fun. Trying to better the world and those around them.

Right. The movies' approach to Superman is as a concept that needs to be "fixed" and updated for today's more cynical world. Supergirl's approach to the Superman mythos is as a concept that has value the way it is and thus should be embraced and respected. The movies are fighting against the material, while the show is working with its existing strengths. And that makes the show more sure of itself and more effective in tone.

Not, you know, punching people through buildings for several blocks and then snapping their necks. (Though I'm more "defensive" of the Zod neck-snap than most.)

I think you could make a case for it in-story, in a vacuum (although at the cost of Clark remaining an essentially weak figure who only does what male authority figures instruct him to do), but the fact that the filmmakers put in that ending at all is a key symptom of that mistrust in the material, that belief that Superman is a concept that needs to be corrected rather than respected. They didn't find it convincing that someone would have innate compassion for life, so they felt they had to make an "excuse" for it by having Superman kill and decide, "Ooh, turns out that's bad, I better not do it again." It's the rationale behind the filmmakers' decision, that intrinsic cynicism and negative worldview from the minds in charge of the DC movie universe, that troubles me more than the in-story event itself.

There can be merit in deconstructing superhero tropes, sure -- but we've had Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns and Invincible and Powers and all those other deconstructions already. We've spent decades tearing down the idea of superheroes. I think that Supergirl, along with things like All-Star Superman, shows that there's room for reconstructing the idea of optimistic heroes. And if Superman can't be leading that charge onscreen, I'm deeply grateful that we have Supergirl to do it.

It's a fucking network TV show, in it's first season, getting middling ratings that has to do this stuff on a weekly basis. It has to maintain a budget so, sorry, the effects aren't going to be ILM High-Caliber $250m budget movie quality.

I think the show's effects are spectacular. It's amazing what they pull off every week. As far as big-budget movie effects go, I think they've fallen into needless excess. It's less about supporting the story and more about pouring huge amounts of time and money into self-indulgent, overcluttered visual orgies just because they can. You could've cut maybe 20 minutes of urban destruction out of Man of Steel without losing a single plot point or line of dialogue. The effects didn't support the story, they just interrupted it and got in its way. So I'll take Supergirl's level of effects over that, thank you. It's more extensive than anything I would've expected on TV, but no more extensive than it strictly needs to be to support the story.

 

[Arrrrgggh]

Right. The movies' approach to Superman is as a concept that needs to be "fixed" and updated for today's more cynical world.

<just bangs her head against the desk repeatedly>

 

[Trekker4747]

I just finished the Red-K episode and I really liked it, the series continues to impress.

As I said up-thread this is the "first" use of Martian Manhunter and I still stand by that statement as I meant it in its larger context (the Smallville and 90s JLA live-action versions not fully counting) and it continues to do a good job. Just, DAMMIT! Can we see a half-eaten packet of mini-Oreos in his hand at some point?

The use of Red-K here was interesting, it took the effects, largely, from Smallville where exposure took away Clark's inhibitions and societal politeness and made him an asshole, but one born from his repressed feelings. It basically makes Kryptonians mean drunks. () But the exposure to it seemed more born from the comics where is a one-exposure thing, not that they had to be in constant exposure in order to feel the effects like with Green-K. (In Smallville, Clark had to be constant contact with the Red-K to feel its effects, here Kara is exposed to the Red-K (at a good distance no-less) in order to be effected. In the comics Superman only had to be exposed to it for the "random effect/hey we need something silly to happen in this issue because its the Silver Age and the CCA" to take place then that particular piece never harmed him again.)

Interesting that it wasn't a "naturally occurring" version of Kryptonite and was a synthetic one, which would suggest Superman has never been exposed to Red-K and thus, presumably, no other kind of Red-K.

In Smallville usually the after effects of Red-K wouldn't last outside of the episode. Maybe a tiny arc where Clark struggles with Lex, Lana, Chloe or whoever for an episode or two but mostly it was back to life as normal where everyone shrugged off that time when Clark acted like a complete asshole and maxed out his parents's credit cards. Here it looks like Kara's Red-K exposure is going to have some lasting impact, if only for a single episode. But I doubt they'll have her repair her rep with the city and more notably with Jimmy in a single episode.

I still think Benoist does an amazing job in the role and, damn, did she look good as Red-K "civilian" Kara.

Got to admit, the show is good. Like said up thread, it's because the creators behind it aren't shying away from the notion of a positive/upbeat superhero and realizing just because she has near limitless power that doesn't mean there can't be challenges. I've always argued when it came to Supes the more interesting thing is how he as a person deals with things, his regular life and the Superman life, than it is in how he overcomes the physical battles.

Can you even imagine the brooding, dour-faced, scowling Superman from the current crop of movies taking a couple minutes out of his day to stand-up for a kid being bullied and to act like they're best-friends? I loved that bit in Supergirl because it felt like, well, Supergirl to some degree. It also felt like a version of Superman we've not seen in a while, particularly in film.

 

[Phoenix219]

That's assuming that Kal-El was zero years old when they put him in the rocket.

In Superman the movie, that kid who walked out of the rocket and saved Glen Ford from getting crushed under his pickup truck (Ford on Ford violence?) had to be 3 or four, even though he was definitely a baby when they stuck him in the "rocket" so that was more about the duration of the trip to Earth, and Kara in the TV Show didn't appear to have grown at all while she was sleeping.

Could have been because of the Phantom Zone or wherever Braniac saved her from. But yeah, Clark was about 3 when they found him in Smallville, as well, correct?

I know they are separate universes, but this show definitely feels like the spiritual sucessor to both SV and the 80s movies. I could totally see someone with the visual look, tone and compassion of Welling or Reeves behind the shadowed face or on the other end of the txt messages. I can't get that vibe at all when thinking of MoS.

I loved that red K had a similar effect here as it did on Smallville. Supergirl is staying in familiar territory while still doing its own thing. Can't agree more with the person who said it embraces all of the things the new movie verse seems to be running away from.

 

[DigificWriter]

Kara stayed the same age as she'd been when Krypton exploded because she was stuck in the Phantom Zone, where time doesn't progress/exist.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Which explains why she wasn't 14 years older, but if the trip through real space took a month, she would be a month older, and if the trip through real space took 6 months, she would be 6 months older.

Considering her life support was a gasmask, I'm assuming the trip was only supposed to take a week or two.

 

[kirk55555]

I\

As I said up-thread this is the "first" use of Martian Manhunter and I still stand by that statement as I meant it in its larger context (the Smallville and 90s JLA live-action versions not fully counting) and it continues to do a good job. Just, DAMMIT! Can we see a half-eaten packet of mini-Oreos in his hand at some point?

Even if you want to argue Smallville doesn't really count because MM stayed as a human except for brief moments (which I don't agree with), the JLA TV movie had him in full martian form in most of his (somewhat short) screen time, and showed his shapeshifting powers. It definitely counted. The Supergirl TV show has had some firsts, but Martian Manhunter isn't one of them.