Strange New Worlds review **POSSIBLE SPOILERS**

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Strange New Worlds' started by Amasov, May 1, 2022.

  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    In SUMMMMMMER!
    Quite right, which is why I find it so interesting when they come to light, because I'm sitting there going "I don't remember that" and come to find out it's from a franzine, or book or something that wasn't in the show.

    Takes me a minute to sort it all out.
     
    JoaquinSlowly and Quinton like this.
  2. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2019
    Location:
    SoCal
    MA: The Gorn's first contact with the prime reality Federation took place in 2267, when the Gorn attacked, with impunity, the Federation colony and outpost on Cestus III.
    The ship was unknown in Arena, and Kirk didn't know the Gorn
     
  3. Harpsichord

    Harpsichord Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2019
    Eh, that doesn't mean it was first contact it just means the ship was unknown and Kirk didn't know what a Gorn looked like. It's the same type of handwaving they did for the Borg and Ferengi episodes on ENT. They'll never see the Gorn (except probably La'an in a flashback), the ship will look different than the one in Arena (so that one isn't in the database), and the Gorn won't bother trying to communicate (same as in Arena). EZ PZ.

    If they're going to massage canon to fit an appearance from a known race in I'm inclined to be more forgiving when they bring back a criminally underused race like the Gorn rather than doing it so we can get round #20 with the Ferengi.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2022
    JoaquinSlowly likes this.
  4. Serveaux

    Serveaux Mediocre Old White Man Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2013
    Location:
    Location, Location
     
    GNDN18 and Nerys Myk like this.
  5. Supervisor 194

    Supervisor 194 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2003
    Location:
    Somewhere between timelines
    Kirk's dialogue indicates that he had never heard of the Gorn before, but that doesn't mean that Arena was first contact.
     
    JoaquinSlowly likes this.
  6. mswood

    mswood Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Location:
    9th level of Hell
    You assume that the Federation has ever record of every type of ship an alien race has? Because that's fairly irrational. We know they weren't familiar with that ship, and that Kirk had not seen one previously. Thats what we know. Now if could mean its first contact for the Federation, but it doesn't mean that's the only possible outcome.

    Fans make a lot of assumption without actually looking at situation completely objectively.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2022
  7. Supervisor 194

    Supervisor 194 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2003
    Location:
    Somewhere between timelines
    Kirk's relevant dialogue: "I face the creature the Metrons called a Gorn."
     
    NCC-73515 likes this.
  8. mswood

    mswood Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Location:
    9th level of Hell
    And just so people understand, that means Kirk didn't know the name of the race of the being he fought. Not that no on tin the Federation had knowledge of them. We know the colony didn't see them. Destroyed at distance, and didn't converse with them. Again doesn't mean no one else in the Federation had ever had contact with them.

    As for Kirk it just means that he wasn't visually familiar with the race. And that could mean no previous contact. Or it could mean that the information about the race wasn't widely disseminated through Starfleet, that a captain would recognize a race by sight.
     
    JoaquinSlowly likes this.
  9. Supervisor 194

    Supervisor 194 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2003
    Location:
    Somewhere between timelines
    Exactly so, to borrow a phrase :)
     
    JoaquinSlowly likes this.
  10. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    astral plane
    Well, to take that a step further, according to "Arena," Cestus III might have had multiple interactions with the Gorn prior to the Gorn's attack on the base. From http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/19.htm:

    KIRK: Can you tell me what happened?
    MAN: Scanners reported a ship approaching. We get them now and then. They're all welcome to use our facilities. You know that.
    KIRK: Yes, I know.
    MAN: They came in space normal speed, using our regular approach route, but they knocked out our phaser batteries with their first salvo. From then on we were helpless. We weren't expecting anything! Why should we? We didn't have anything anyone would want.​
     
    JoaquinSlowly likes this.
  11. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2019
    Location:
    SoCal
    what's so irrational about assuming they have database entries of all kinds of ships, since we explicitly get statements that refer to precisely that? when spock says a ship configuration is totally new and unknown, do you think it's a new ship, or one that other federation ships have met before and it's just the enterprise computer that didn't get the latest updates? :D
     
  12. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    In SUMMMMMMER!
    The second one.
     
  13. mswood

    mswood Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Location:
    9th level of Hell
    Sorry if I am not clear, my grammar and spelling are atrocious. Or if I misunderstood your original post. I assumed that you meant since they couldn't identify the ship, and that Kirk had to be told the race was a Gorn that it indicated that this must be a first contact with that race.

    What I am saying is that someone is always going to have to be the first to see a new ships design and to be able to designate its point of origin (just like military's around the world do today). And that every new design that is encountered doesn't mean its from a race that the Federation hasn't had some level of contact with previously. Jus like a new sighting of a previously never seen vessel today doesn't mean its not from a government that the we have already encountered.

    In Balance of Terror even near the Neutral Zone, it wasn't until the one officer informed Kirk about the imagery that historically been part of Romulan ships were they able to confirm that that ship (near Romulan Space) was actually a Romulan vessel. The people manning the monitoring posts couldn't identify them. Now once a ship has been identified I would naturally assume that information is transmitted to Starfleet and from there, makes its way through the fleet and into general Federation records.

    The other part of the equation, is can a Starfleet Captain solely off of the visual appearance of an alien Identify every race that the Federation has ever come into contact with. Or is it something that they might normally need to confirm using a the records that would be on the ship? I would assume they know many, but I wouldn't assume they personally could identify everyone.

    Thus I thank its absolutely possible that while this ship could be one never previously encountered by the Federation, and that the Federation could have had some contact with the Gorn but that it wasn't of a significant enough nature that Jim Kirk would be able to identify it by sight alone.
     
    NCC-73515, gweeps and Quinton like this.
  14. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2019
    Location:
    SoCal
    Yes, now that makes sense. I guess we'll know when we see what the ship looks like, and how exactly they react :D
     
  15. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Location:
    The Warped Sector of the Demented Quadrant
    Archer knew about the Gorn over a century before this so it's not as if the Hegemony was some unknown power in the 2250s.
     
    Sparky likes this.
  16. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2019
    Location:
    SoCal
    Prime Archer or Mirror Archer?
     
  17. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Location:
    The Warped Sector of the Demented Quadrant
    Prime. "Bound," one of the final episodes set in 2155.
     
  18. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2019
    Location:
    SoCal
    HARRAD: When the situation calls for it. Piracy is a risky business. I prefer commerce. This (the blue drink) is from a planet in the Gorn Hegemony.
    REED: The Gorn?
    HARRAD: The less said about them, the better. But they do brew the finest Meridor in the five systems.
    ARCHER: Delicious.
     
    cooleddie74 likes this.
  19. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Mirror Lorca had a Gorn skeleton in his lab, but according to BTS info (so obviously not canon, but food for thought), he got it on his own, and the Terrans knew more about the Gorn. Not sure when he could get the skeleton considering he kinda popped into our universe in the middle of a war, but hey.
     
  20. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2019
    Location:
    SoCal
    I took that as an interesting hint that they found this skeleton, but didn't know anything else about them