Spoilers Strange New Worlds General Discussion Thread

[The Wormhole]

The best example I can think of a strong and enduring TV franchise is probably Star Trek. It's been going since the '60s, just like the Fantastic Four, Spider-Man and the X-Men! I think if Star Trek is going to continue to exist as a TV show it should probably look back at Star Trek and treat its continuity the way Star Trek does.

Star Trek's "continuity" has only been an illusion anyway. Of the franchise's first forty years, every series could have existed as standalone with the exceptions of DS9 and Enterprise, which did draw from the Trek mythos, and ironically they were the two series from the first forty years that made the least splash amongst general audiences, and are at times viewed, not entirely inaccurately as the redheaded stepchildren of the franchise. Indeed, Trek Lore didn't start being tapped for story potential until around 2003 when the novels were really starting to be allowed to do their own thing, and then in 2004 when Enterprise did its fanwank final season.

Indeed, look at the franchise's popular points in the first forty years, on TV that's TOS and TNG. And why are they so popular? Because they're the sort of show the casual viewer can sit down and enjoy it without any foreknowledge. The most popular movies from that time period? TWOK and TVH. Yes, TWOK is a sequel to an episode of TOS, but it works just fine if you hadn't seen that episode. And need I point out, the movie contradicts the episode it follows up on, yet that doesn't prevent anyone from considering it amongst the best. And TVH? That's basically a comedy set in the contemporary era that has little connection to the Star Trek world, and that ended up being the franchise's biggest box office hit before Trek XI came out.

Bottom line, Star Trek's continuity is not the selling point some fans seem to think it is.

Doctor Who has done incredibly well in that respect, too. Continuity issues here and there, but they have a time war to explain some of that. Useful things those temporal conflicts.

Ah, what? Doctor Who is notoriously anti-continuity. One of its most revered writers/producers is quoted saying "continuity is only whatever I can remember." Indeed, during the period he was involved with the show, time travel was actually removed from the show, the Doctor was stranded on a vaguely defined "near future" Earth, which the show couldn't even stay consistent about when that "near future" was to the point that it ended up becoming the present day the show was made in at one point, only to be contradicted even further. And since time travel was removed from the show at this point, you can't even use the "time war, changing timeline" excuse many try to use to explain Doctor Who's inconsistencies.

And even that can only be applied to the period of 2010-2017, the Steven Moffat era, which is the only time in the show's history that Doctor Who was actually about time travel and the implications and consequences that go with it. Before and since, time travel has only been a mode of transport for Doctor Who.

 

[cooleddie74]

Halo 4 redesigned a lot of the Covenant aliens.

The game I don't own. Which explains this.

 

[Tallguy]

Bottom line, Star Trek's continuity is not the selling point some fans seem to think it is.

Which means that you don't have to use the freaking GORN.

 

[Jayson1]

I think it's hard to deny that the Berman era stuff did feel connected as if in the same universe. Lots of the same props,tech,outifits, aliens,alien designs, references and actors playing the same character over multiple shows did make it all feel very connected. Just because they would tinker and change a small thing from time to time doesn't change any of that. Even TOS which on the surface feels very unconnected was sort of made to fit in better when you have many TOS actors/character reprise their roles on the modern shows and the old TOS look was recreated 3 times over 3 shows. I think people liked that. I know I liked it. But I also think lots of time has passed and it's time to go to another universe and create another connected like Star Trek setting that can play out over multiple shows.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

It works best when you can appreciate the connections, be ignorant of them, or choose to ignore them, whichever you wind up doing.

 

[Tuskin38]

The game I don't own. Which explains this.

Yeah, and then two games later Halo infinite reverted a lot of the redesigns.

 

[cooleddie74]

4 was one I barely touched at all, so now everything falls into place. I missed or forgot about big changes that were reversed.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Continuity isn't necessarily the selling point, it's the reward for people who give a Trek series a chance and find themselves becoming a fan.

It means that new Picard and Prodigy viewers can go back to TNG or Voyager and watch a story that still absolutely matters to the stories that they've enjoyed. Those old Klingons that showed up in DS9, you can go back to TOS and watch episodes with them in! I've seen people checking out TOS just to get up to speed for Wrath of Khan and get absolutely sucked in. Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home hits different if you already know Sarek and Amanda, and what Spock's been through.

Of course Trek should be accessible, but that doesn't mean it can't be consistent and build upon what came before.

 

[fireproof78]

Which it does well enough to feel unified still.

Mileage will vary as to the success but watching SNW doesn't feel odd to then watch TOS.

Honestly, Enterprise and TMP stand out the most as not feeling like a fit.

 

[The Wormhole]

I think it's hard to deny that the Berman era stuff did feel connected as if in the same universe. Lots of the same props,tech,outifits, aliens,alien designs, references and actors playing the same character over multiple shows did make it all feel very connected.

Half the time that was done because of budgetary expedience. All those props, outfits, alien prosthetics, ship models or whatever were sitting around anyway, might as well use them rather than spend money on making something new. That's all it was, an attempt to save money rather than a conscious attempt at worldbuilding. When the current era began, they had to make all new props, costumes and everything else, so it made more sense to create new designs rather than rebuild something from thirty years earlier or even further back.

 

[Jayson1]

IMO Trek works like this. Characters and story are why people like Star Trek. Canon and continuity is why people have a passion for it. It's that something special that separates it from other shows, even good ones. Being a fan of Trek is in essence making ones fandom into a hobby. Something to think about even when you are not watching the latest new episode or movie.

 

[Nerys Myk]

IMO Trek works like this. Characters and story are why people like Star Trek. Canon and continuity is why people have a passion for it. It's that something special that separates it from other shows, even good ones. Being a fan of Trek is in essence making ones fandom into a hobby. Something to think about even when you are not watching the latest new episode or movie.

A lota show/franchises have canon and continuity. Trek isn't special in that way. I was geeking out over Marvel and DC continuity when there was just TOS.

Obsessing over canon/continuity is just the first step in Treklightenment. When you have put that aside you are ready for then next step.

 

[Jayson1]

A lota show/franchises have canon and continuity. Trek isn't special in that way. I was geeking out over Marvel and DC continuity when there was just TOS.

Obsessing over canon/continuity is just the first step in Treklightenment. When you have put that aside you are ready for then next step.

Every fan goes through the process! First they learns to nitpick. Then they learn to buy merch in order to celebrate their passion! Then they learn to rant. Then wisdom comes in and the learn the power of Head Canon! Then they learn to sale most of their merch they were smart off enough not to open and make some money! Then finally they die and learn it is important to put it in the will that they want to be buried in a Starfleet dress uniform!

 

[Nerys Myk]

Every fan goes through the process! First they learns to nitpick. Then they learn to buy merch in order to celebrate their passion! Then they learn to rant. Then wisdom comes in and the learn the power of Head Canon! Then they learn to sale most of their merch they were smart off enough not to open and make some money! Then finally they die and learn it is important to put it in the will that they want to be buried in a Starfleet dress uniform!

 

[Daedalus]

Ah, what? Doctor Who is notoriously anti-continuity. One of its most revered writers/producers is quoted saying "continuity is only whatever I can remember." Indeed, during the period he was involved with the show, time travel was actually removed from the show, the Doctor was stranded on a vaguely defined "near future" Earth, which the show couldn't even stay consistent about when that "near future" was to the point that it ended up becoming the present day the show was made in at one point, only to be contradicted even further. And since time travel was removed from the show at this point, you can't even use the "time war, changing timeline" excuse many try to use to explain Doctor Who's inconsistencies.

And even that can only be applied to the period of 2010-2017, the Steven Moffat era, which is the only time in the show's history that Doctor Who was actually about time travel and the implications and consequences that go with it. Before and since, time travel has only been a mode of transport for Doctor Who.

That aside, time travel is still a great tool to excuse minor continuity issues. It doesn't matter if the Doctor was stranded on Earth for a period of time, why wouldn't another time traveller be changing time around him?

Anyway, the Third Doctor is still the Third Doctor, it's not like a reboot has occurred that has totally changed that fact, has it? (leaving The Timeless Child arc aside). Doctor Who has never gone down the Kelvin Timeline route (Dr Who and the Daleks aside) and all we've really had is stuff people can't remember anyway, such as the fate of the planet Earth in the show's continuity (The Ark, The End of the World). The UNIT Dating controversy is just one of those things, like a Stardate inconsistency. Trying to measure things too perfectly gets you tied up in knots.

The point is that it's never had to "Marvel" it's way through the last 62 years, it keeps on going as if it's one long adventure. There are different stylistic choices from one era to another, but you dont need a multiverse or reboots to explain why the Doctor looks different every half decade. The same Doctor, different faces.

 

[Mudd]

Which means that you don't have to use the freaking GORN.

Which means there's no reason not to.

Freaking man-eating dinosaurs with spaceships! What's not to love?

 

[Finn]

Wasn't the explanation (stated or implied) that they were out of range of that chatter?

Yeah, but Uhura would have picked up on it before they reached Starbase 11. They weren't out of range until the moment they were orbit over Starbase 11. Mendez implied it was all over Starfleet News- he wasn't sure if Kirk knew Pike personally.

Maybe she was under the influence of Talosians along with Spock.

 

[DaveyNY]

Considering the new info we now know about her history with both Captain Pike & Spock.

Could it be possible that she was somewhat aware of what Spock might be planning, and simply didn't do anything to interfere.

Thus attempting to be somewhat loyal to both her Captains.

 

[Tuskin38]

I may have mentioned this when it first appeared in Prodigy, and later SNW Season 2. But the Gorn Emblem both shows use originated from the 90s Starfleet Academy video game

 

[137th Gebirg]

I love it when deep-cut apocrypha like that appears in official productions. Very cool world-building.