No disagreement here. Trek has a long and annoying history of crutches. Warp core breaches come to mind.
Really? Not even Troubles and Tribble-ations? Tomorrow Is Yesterday? The Visitor? Past Tense?
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Spoilers Strange New Worlds General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter NewHeavensNewEarth
- Start date
I don't know anyone who found it insulting.
Some of my language is specifically designed to make use of phrases people used complaining about Enterprise's Finale. "Betrayal" and "insult to the audience" were common comments.
When the Mirror Universe episode was conceived the production knew the writing was on the wall. That unless a miracle happened the show was done. That episode was I am sure a hoot for the performers who love playing different things. And it was an enjoyable episode, but as enjoyable as it was it added absolutely nothing to the Story of Star Trek Enterprise, its characters, any current plot or arc. Absolutely nothing, not even to its larger universe. It was a massive waste of 2 valuable episodes that could be spent with our characters, advancing their story, or adding an element to their universe. Even something like 11:52 from Voyager is connected to our character and the overall universe at large. This wasn't.
People lost their shit over "These are the Voyages" and many of the complaints were upset about how they told the story (compared to just the quality of the finished product). And that was one episode that did at least add to the story of Enterprise just not told through their eyes. In that regard the two part "In a Mirror, Darkly" does a bigger disservice to the show (though again its a far superior 2 episodes).
Telling a story about say the ship, by the people building it? Hell that adds to the universe no problem (probably shouldn't be the first or near the last, especially when its not a natural ending to the show). Telling a story from a strangers point of view or a news coverage, again still is from its world and adds to that universe. But showing a tale, utterly removed from its characters and its universe doesn't advance that shows story. Now take Discovery's 2 parter in season 3 about The Empress, because its showing the change of character she has had and how being in a nicer more benevolent universe has changed her arc dramatically it worked having her return for those episodes, and of course the episode had meaning to the characters and the story of Star Trek Discovery. Or even take episodes like "The Visitor" and "Twilight" are still connected to the story of our characters, even if those episodes are alternate takes of what might happen to those characters, under different circumstances.
Ok, I'll grant "Trials and Tribble-ations" and even "All our Yesterdays" since it gave rise to one of my favorite novels. But, the others? Not so much.
No general fan consensus is that they are highly enjoyable episodes. And I was one of them. But I also thought it should never have been made, and as a fan of Enterprise or later Star Trek Enterprise using two episodes to tell a story that in no way shape or form impacted the story or characters of the show felt like at the very least a serious waste. I probably wouldn't have anted it made even if it was done in its 5th year and had 2 more years and left the airways when they wanted to. But knowing that the show was over, I was insulted by it, even if I enjoyed the finished product.
Earlier in that season we got the Klingon virus. A story Coto wanted to do, but one that I felt really wasn't something that was necessary for them to do. But at least that story impacted the characters and the universe its a part of.
Or put in another way, several Voyager casts had asked (and continue to push) for a Captain Proton story. There was even some talk of one completely in character. I have no interest for that to have ever become an episode of Voyager or even a short Trek today. But I have no issue in watching an episode of Voyager characters pretending to be the characters in the Captain Proton universe. One is connected one isn't.
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I don't think "other people are saying it" is much of a defense. It's hyperbole, at best. The audience is not owed any specific thing.
Still doesn't change the fact that keeping it detached from the main storyline, the first MU episode to do so, was a smart call, imo.
It was a pretty bad episode. But if I lost my shit every time TNG gave me a stinker I wouldn't have finished the show.
Some of the best episodes in a franchise are those that actually don't advance the story in any way. Not every episode need advance the story, or the same characters, or indeed anything at all. Storytelling is about trying new things and different things. It should be celebrated, not denigrated.
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On this point I completely agree. I am someone who finds connections even in small details. Even with the most recent season of Picard that when I binge it it will give me more interesting viewpoint on TNG, because even if it wasn't about TNG's characters (besides Picard) it informs how I view the world.
Similarly, with the Mirror Universe. Even if it isn't about "our" characters it still has weight in it on how the characters might have been. It's why the Kelvin films are so valuable to me.
Lolwhut
You should have been here (on this BBS) back in 2001 then. EVERYTHING about ENT was 'insulting' back then, including the Akiraprise....
Heh ... obviously you don't know me that well to think I meant anyplace but THERE.
Of course. They're fans!
I didn't feel insulted until the very last episode.
Everything before that was great.
Yes its hyperbole, though not the "insulted" by it. I was. And while I disliked the finale to Enterprise, many people rank it one of the worst episode of Trek and I find that utter hogwash. Bad, I can certainly understand the worst? I find that difficult to comprehend.
Off the top of my head, I can't honestly remember a single episode of TV (set once writers at least attempted to write tv that had some semblance of consistency of of character and universe) that actually didn't in some way shape or form connect to the characters of the show or the universe its set in. I am not including anthologies, that may or may not share a connected universe.
Agreed. It wasn't quite that bad, though since I haven't seen all of VOY I can't be sure which one it is.
Oh its pretty bad. But its just not the worst for me, as there are a couple scenes and a few moments I thank that actually really work in the episode, versus a few episodes that I generally find almost nothing working.
And like I said I did really like the ENT episode of the MU. Quality of the episode was not my issue with it at all. Now you give me an anthology series that's tied to the whole franchise, and that episode would be a great fit for that.
When the press reported an anthology series I got really excited by the wide possibility of things that could cover. Of course, that seemed to be more just casual desire from a producer then an active pitch or concept to work on.
Oh, and it's also the first time since 1969 that we're told its adventures are a "five year mission". I missed that.
The
