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Spoilers Strange New Worlds General Discussion Thread

  • Thread starter NewHeavensNewEarth
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imagine if there was star trek strange new world movies like how there was the original series movies and next generation movies

althought i wonder why they never made any star trek movies from both deep space nine and voyager
 
imagine if there was star trek strange new world movies like how there was the original series movies and next generation movies

althought i wonder why they never made any star trek movies from both deep space nine and voyager
They kind of screwed themselves with Deep Space Nine since they removed Sisko from the picture.

And they were going to make a Voyager movie, but that kind of fell apart due to the same sort of money and executive issues that killed Enterprise.
 
I don't think it's money concerns at all. They had a large ensemble cast of very good actors and they want to make use of their large ensemble cast, instead of shining the spotlight on some guest star every week - especially given the fact that they have a limited number of episodes each season compared to how it was done 25 years ago :shrug:

Previous Treks have had a great cast of regulars as well. Almost everyone on DS9 was a strong actor, and we had entire episodes where the focus was on someone other than the regular characters (like Nog/Vic in It's Only a Paper Moon).

I do agree with only 10 episodes they cannot afford that level of structural experimentation. But there's no reason to involve every single character in every single plot.

Take just as one example, the third episode this season, where they go on shore leave. The entire main cast goes to planet drunk/stoned, even though in several cases it doesn't make sense from a character perspective they want to get high. Compare this to say Captain's Holiday, where only Picard goes to Risa, and then gets in a solo adventure, with the main cast only appearing at the very beginning and ending of the episode. Everyone appears, but they mostly just get 1-2 scenes, because the real story is what happens in the middle. Even when DS9 did their (terrible) Risa episode, it focused on just a handful of regulars (Worf, Dax, Julian, Leeta, and Quark) with the rest of the crew staying behind.

Regardless, if you're going to tell a story which (at minimum) has to use Pike, Una, Spock, La'an, Chapel, M'Benga, and Uhura each week (and possibly Kirk, Pelia, and Scotty as well), they will be well-served by any sort of ship-based bottle episode (similar to Off Hour) where the crew is engaging in collaborative problem solving. Traditional away missions will never involve the entire crew, which means an A/B plot if you want to keep everyone involved. But if you want to avoid both of these, you're going to have to come up with some pretty tortured ways to keep everyone involved throughout the episode. Which is some of what we saw this season.
 
Previous Treks have had a great cast of regulars as well. Almost everyone on DS9 was a strong actor, and we had entire episodes where the focus was on someone other than the regular characters (like Nog/Vic in It's Only a Paper Moon).

I do agree with only 10 episodes they cannot afford that level of structural experimentation. But there's no reason to involve every single character in every single plot.

Take just as one example, the third episode this season, where they go on shore leave. The entire main cast goes to planet drunk/stoned, even though in several cases it doesn't make sense from a character perspective they want to get high. Compare this to say Captain's Holiday, where only Picard goes to Risa, and then gets in a solo adventure, with the main cast only appearing at the very beginning and ending of the episode. Everyone appears, but they mostly just get 1-2 scenes, because the real story is what happens in the middle. Even when DS9 did their (terrible) Risa episode, it focused on just a handful of regulars (Worf, Dax, Julian, Leeta, and Quark) with the rest of the crew staying behind.

Regardless, if you're going to tell a story which (at minimum) has to use Pike, Una, Spock, La'an, Chapel, M'Benga, and Uhura each week (and possibly Kirk, Pelia, and Scotty as well), they will be well-served by any sort of ship-based bottle episode (similar to Off Hour) where the crew is engaging in collaborative problem solving. Traditional away missions will never involve the entire crew, which means an A/B plot if you want to keep everyone involved. But if you want to avoid both of these, you're going to have to come up with some pretty tortured ways to keep everyone involved throughout the episode. Which is some of what we saw this season.
They don't involve every single character in every plot.

SNW tends to have 2-3 characters which are the "main" cast in an episode with the rest making their contractually obligated appearances.
 
Previous Treks have had a great cast of regulars as well. Almost everyone on DS9 was a strong actor, and we had entire episodes where the focus was on someone other than the regular characters (like Nog/Vic in It's Only a Paper Moon).

I do agree with only 10 episodes they cannot afford that level of structural experimentation. But there's no reason to involve every single character in every single plot.

Take just as one example, the third episode this season, where they go on shore leave. The entire main cast goes to planet drunk/stoned, even though in several cases it doesn't make sense from a character perspective they want to get high. Compare this to say Captain's Holiday, where only Picard goes to Risa, and then gets in a solo adventure, with the main cast only appearing at the very beginning and ending of the episode. Everyone appears, but they mostly just get 1-2 scenes, because the real story is what happens in the middle. Even when DS9 did their (terrible) Risa episode, it focused on just a handful of regulars (Worf, Dax, Julian, Leeta, and Quark) with the rest of the crew staying behind.

Regardless, if you're going to tell a story which (at minimum) has to use Pike, Una, Spock, La'an, Chapel, M'Benga, and Uhura each week (and possibly Kirk, Pelia, and Scotty as well), they will be well-served by any sort of ship-based bottle episode (similar to Off Hour) where the crew is engaging in collaborative problem solving. Traditional away missions will never involve the entire crew, which means an A/B plot if you want to keep everyone involved. But if you want to avoid both of these, you're going to have to come up with some pretty tortured ways to keep everyone involved throughout the episode. Which is some of what we saw this season.
Well, they did have guests too like Joe Morgan as the Evil Admiral - who WAS the focus of the episode and Deidre Hall as a Counselor, and Rhys Darby as Trelaine, Demore Barnes as Kor, etc.

So yeah, you seem to be fishing for something to complain about or claim they're cheaping out on some element when it really isn't the case at all.:shrug:
 
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My overall rating for season four is about a six out of ten. There are four really good episodes in there, five middling-to-decent ones, and one outright misfire which I think is also a series low point to date (the puppets, which I was excited for and really did not deliver).

The cast is always great and does a lot of carrying. The scripts have tended to get more convoluted and unconvincing over time, which holds a lot of episodes back. I have a pet theory that someone from The Lower Decks joined the creative team in Season 4, which would explain things like inter-shift rivalries suddenly making an appearance (which I can take or leave), and may also be a contributor to the more convoluted scripts.

What puts me in mind of that is that The Lower Decks creative team were used to keeping 5 or 6 balls in the air with flawless consistency across extremely efficient half-hour episodes, and when it feels like the reach of Season 4 SNW's scripts exceed their grasp, it may be a case of their reaching for this kind of conceptual density but simply not having the tools, or perhaps the wherewithal, to execute on it the way TLD did. Which would be understandable: the consistency of TLD's highwire act cannot be easy to replicate. Literally no other Trek show has ever done it.

("Tomorrow's Enterprise" and its multiple stacking plot devices reminded me of this most recently; the "space baby" thing feels like something that would have happened as a Wacky Trek Gag in the backdrop of a TLD episode.)
 
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calvinhobbes1.jpg
 
I wonder if SNW will do some kind of time-fix/mental erasure/Q magic/fairytale bullshit at the last minute to paper over any weird cracks that they perceive may be left between SNW and TOS.

You know the kind of stuff I mean. Usually proactive little fixes just to cover themselves, like how they "promoted" Pike in the episode when he meets Kirk for the first time so that it was close enough for The Menagerie. (Or to jump series, the big-secret-we-promise ending of Disco season 2.)

I'm not sure which ones are still hanging apart from M'Benga's status, but that's clearly already in the works. Maybe something about La'An not being brought up when her great great grandfather gets found in Space Seed? ;)
 
On DS9/VOY movies...

About not getting DS9 or VOY movies, I agree that they would've been hard to do make happen from a financial standpoint. However, the argument that one reason not to do them, particularly DS9, was because the story was complete, arguably the same could be said for TNG. TNG had a great series finale and if there had been no movies afterward, it would've been a satisfying end. Heck, the TNG finale was better than just about all the TNG movies anyway.

All that being said, there was always space to do new stories, just like TNG did with movies. With VOY, there are a lot of places they could've gone having the crew reacclimate to living in the Alpha Quadrant again, and at the end of DS9, Bajor still wasn't in the Federation, Cardassia was in shambles, and compelling stories with the cast still around could've been written. But unfortunately, I don't know how much of a mass audience was there for that. I wish that the franchise had invested in straight-to-video movies when those were a thing to appeal to a smaller, but passionate fanbase.

On rating SNW Season 4...

I thought it was slightly better than the third season, but still not achieving what I think it could with its great special effects, costuming, and strong cast. I find that SNW is a bit too lightweight, like they are afraid to really say something, so they say next to nothing, and just try to thrive on vibes and hoped for viral moments to get ratings and part of the conversation.

I think they overcorrected from the perceived failings of Discovery. Discovery perhaps was a bit too edgy and overemotive at times, but there were moments when it was trying to say something about the times we live in, more than SNW does.

The standout episode this season for me was "Orders of Magnitude". I also thought "Off-Hours" was good. Most of the rest were decent enough, and none fell to the depths of "Four and a Half Vulcans". I can't really say though that many of these episodes were actually good, not like the older series, because I think I've largely given up on SNW making compelling episodes (especially consistently compelling ones), but more so just colorful distractions, diversions in franchise trappings.
 
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So yeah, you seem to be fishing for something to complain about or claim they're cheaping out on some element when it really isn't the case at all.:shrug:

My problem with the season isn't that I didn't enjoy the episodes - most of them were at least average, and a handful were very good.

My issue instead is the show is feeling more artificial - more "stagey" as time progresses. The episode concepts are often pretty goofy (which admittedly could be the case in early Trek as well) but in several cases this season the script just sort of handwaved it away, arguing we should just go along with the fun concept.

I no longer feel like I'm really watching the characters, but a talented cast of actors doing their best with the material given. I never really have willing suspension of disbelief any longer, no longer have any immersion, no longer feel there's any "reality" underpinning the story.
 
My problem with the season isn't that I didn't enjoy the episodes - most of them were at least average, and a handful were very good.

My issue instead is the show is feeling more artificial - more "stagey" as time progresses. The episode concepts are often pretty goofy (which admittedly could be the case in early Trek as well) but in several cases this season the script just sort of handwaved it away, arguing we should just go along with the fun concept.

I no longer feel like I'm really watching the characters, but a talented cast of actors doing their best with the material given. I never really have willing suspension of disbelief any longer, no longer have any immersion, no longer feel there's any "reality" underpinning the story.
Don't know what to say.

SNW feels more like actual "STAR TREK" to me than the majority of the stuff produced during the Rick Berman era. I often felt I was watching Family Ties IN SPACE because more often than not TNG was being written by bthat type to television writer. And I really hated when they tacked on some ridiculous anomoly that usually got fixed by remodulating the Deflector Dish in the last 5 minutes.:shrug:
 
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imagine if there was star trek strange new world movies like how there was the original series movies and next generation movies

althought i wonder why they never made any star trek movies from both deep space nine and voyager
Becaue neither DS9 nor VOY were popular enough with the general public.

TNG Generations made money because they struck while TNG popularity was still high; and First Contact was an appealing action film in it's own right; which brought in more of the general public; but Inssurection bombed in 1998 - so yeah, they weren't going to blow money on two series that no one outside of hard core Trekkies watched.

And when they tested the waters with TNG again in 2002 - Nemesis didn't even take the top spot on its opening weekend - it was #2 behind Jenifer Lopez' Maid In Manhattan.
 
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