Strange New Worlds disappointment

[Noname Given]

Okay; they weren't doing "lots and lots" (you might even say "abundant") callbacks/refernces from TOS in TNG S1 & S2.

It's just such a whack criticism to level at TNG, especially when you're praising SNW which is, very deliberately and by its own aims, a TOS tribute act which revisits plots and characters wholesale, up to and including remixing existing episodes. Doubly so when the "lots and lots" of callbacks are relegated chiefly to the first two episodes and then end up reaching for "Troi is Ilya".

I'm not sure why your original post went off about Picard as well - yeah, he's a dickhead, I hate him too, but it seemed like you just wanted to rag on TNG by any means necessary, even if it was totally beside the point.

SNW is SET in the TOS era 7 years (and decreasing) before Where No Man Has Gone Before so IMO including the characters from that era is fine.

TNG was set 100 years AFTER that era - yet wen see Type 7 Shuttlecraft models and old stye props in the background of many a TNG S! scene; and a out and out clone of a TOS character in TNG S2.

I go off on Picard and the other 24th century characters because in general, when written to Gene's Vision™ UNLIKE the characters from TOS, they're pretty much unrelatable to the viewer. And yeah, Picard's 'Hollier Than Thou' has always bothered me - especially when he doesn't follow his own advice.

I've said this about my relationship with TNG in that I too ultimately grew to accept it for what it became and called it Star Trek, but as I've seen what they managed to do with ST: D S2 and SNW in its entirety to date, yeah, I've grown much more sour on 24th century Berman era Trek (with the exception of DS9) and TNG in particular as I find less and less TNG episodes I'd bother to rewatch anymore - but that's me.

 

[Yistaan]

The Spock/La'an relationship is another big nothing burger, but the whole idea that Spock just forgets in Space Seed that he not only knew a Noonien-Singh, but dated her and brought up Khan by name in the last episode is just a baffling decision.

There's really no natural way for La'an to be brought up in Space Seed that wouldn't sound awkward and unnecessary to be fair. It's actually more jarring in Space Seed that Kirk and Scotty are romanticizing Khan's rule when every mention of him in SNW stresses how EVIL (TM) he is and how his genes combined with La'an's Vulcan transformation caused her to punch out Kirk and force Scotty to electrocute her, something they should remember very well (and thus they shouldn't think highly of Khan).

 

[fireproof78]

and thus they shouldn't think highly of Khan).

I too enjoy blaming people for their ancestors sins. It's why I look down on most people due to the chance they might be being related to Genghis Khan.

 

[Starflight]

I've said this about my relationship with TNG in that I too ultimately grew to accept it for what it became and called it Star Trek, but as I've seen what they managed to do with ST: D S2 and SNW in its entirety to date, yeah, I've grown much more sour on 24th century Berman era Trek (with the exception of DS9) and TNG in particular as I find less and less TNG episodes I'd bother to rewatch anymore - but that's me.

I understand, my own attitude toward TNG has somewhat soured in recent years too (mostly due to the character of Picard, who I agree really is an absolute cock). I didn't want to start a big fight or anything, I was just baffled at the notion that one of TNG's problems was that it was overly filled with TOS callbacks, a criticism I still can't get my head around or agree with.

 

[Yistaan]

I too enjoy blaming people for their ancestors sins. It's why I look down on most people due to the chance they might be being related to Genghis Khan.

It was literally mentioned by Kirk and Scotty that La'an's augment genes were causing her to go evil as a Vulcan. That being said, they wouldn't be blaming La'an in Space Seed, but they certainly wouldn't be singing praises of Khan either who they know through La'an is bad news. Yet they romanticize his rule.

 

[Captain Jollydark]

I'm a Trek fan but when this series came out I was truly disappointed with the boring drama and bad acting. The actors are not what I expected. They don't act professionally like other star trek crews. The stories are boring and I lost interest within the first 5 minutes. As the series progressed, the show got worse, more drama and more boring stories. Not to mention the singing musical show. Just not at all what I expect in Star trek. Discovery was a great series and I was sorry to see it end. I had really hoped Strange new worlds would be exciting like Discovery.

I loved Discovery (unlike many here) but even though this season of SNW doesn't seem as innovative as the last two, I disagree with your assessment of the cast's acting chops. I think you may be conflating your disappointment with the stories with what the actors do with the scripts.

 

[fireproof78]

It was literally mentioned by Kirk and Scotty that La'an's augment genes were causing her to go evil as a Vulcan. That being said, they wouldn't be blaming La'an in Space Seed, but they certainly wouldn't be singing praises of Khan either who they know through La'an is bad news. Yet they romanticize his rule.

Because they were removed from the consequences and noted the peace in his time.

There's a distance of time that allows romantic idealization. Spock protests this idea but their experience with La'an would not impact their view of Khan as a figure in history books.

 

[Yistaan]

Khan: Tell me more about your governmental system.

Kirk: We have the Federation Council. The trouble is that people don't always agree. In fact, they hardly ever do.

Khan: Then they should be made to.

Kirk: By whom? Who's going to make them? You?

Khan: Why not me?

 

[fireproof78]

Khan: Tell me more about your governmental system.

Kirk: We have the Federation Council. The trouble is that people don't always agree. In fact, they hardly ever do.

Khan: Then they should be made to.

Kirk: By whom? Who's going to make them? You?

Khan: Why not me?

If it works, right?

 

[Sketcher]

There isn't a Trek series or movie that hasn't been disappointing in one way or another. Is SNW the show I thought it would be when it started out...not so much. But it isn't all bad, and in terms of crews I'd like to work with, this one is definitely up there. Mostly because they can talk and joke around. Do not need that super rigid professionalism anywhere in my life.

 

[fireproof78]

Do not need that super rigid professionalism anywhere in my life.

This.

It strikes me that people want no laughter in their lives at all with the calls for professionalism then complaining we don't know anything about the characters.

If I were strictly professional I'd hardly interact with my coworkers and we wouldn't ask about personal matters. Somehow, our work place still functions.

 

[FederationHistorian]

I think the biggest issue is: fear. The writers are afraid to write. To make new characters, to make new situations, to form new concepts, to have an opinion. They want to stay in the safe sandpit of what they know, rather than step outside of it.

DIS and Short Treks gave them a litany of characters to use, and even a few new species to explore. Even if SNW needed a disposable redshirt or two to spare one of their characters, DIS already created them. SNW just did not want to use them. It was like they were trying to get away from the stink of the first season of DIS, instead on building off of the positive aspects of the first couple of seasons.

Picard was similar. Insular, scared. The writers more interested in commenting on what was on their doorstep (almost literally)

In the first season of PIC, there was actual exploration, and the only season of the show to do so. The second season, I have no idea what happened there. Considering what a fan of TOS the showrunner of S2 was, they should have been able to figure out to do a parallel Earth situation instead of time travel to explore the issues of the day. While continuing with the themes of the first season.

 

[fireproof78]

It was like they were trying to get away from the stink of the first season of DIS, instead on building off of the positive aspects of the first couple of seasons.

That was tremendously apparent in Season 2. No matter what one thinks of Discovery the negativity created reticence.

The second season, I have no idea what happened there.

Covid restrictions.

 

[The Wormhole]

I'm a Trek fan but when this series came out I was truly disappointed with the boring drama and bad acting. The actors are not what I expected. They don't act professionally like other star trek crews. The stories are boring and I lost interest within the first 5 minutes. As the series progressed, the show got worse, more drama and more boring stories. Not to mention the singing musical show. Just not at all what I expect in Star trek. Discovery was a great series and I was sorry to see it end. I had really hoped Strange new worlds would be exciting like Discovery.

"Unprofessional behavior." "I hate the musical." At first this seems like a generic list of complaints any random Hater spews on the internet. Then you claim to have liked Disco. I'll admit, that's an original statement.

 

[Mage]

Normally I'd be quick to defend SNW. But this season has me feeling salty, so I won't bother right now.

I wouldn't say salty, but yes. We're a bit behind in the Netherlands, next up is 'What is Starfleet'. But so this seasons isn't my favorite.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

This season has been an uneven mess, but that is hardly a first for Star Trek.

 

[Starkers]

This one is relatively easy. He's accepts a different assignment at a hospital then requests the Enterprise again. The billet for CMO is filled but he's willing to take bring a staff physician.

Yeah, presumably at some point he's replaced by Dr Piper who is then replaced by McCoy. That M'Benga goes away but returns for a couple of short postings isn't hugely problematic to explain away.

 

[Tosk]

This season has been an uneven mess, but that is hardly a first for Star Trek.

It's galling to me because it's a third season nosedive, which is much rarer.

 

[Mechanoid1]

The Oscar for the most absurd fantasy drama pretending to be a science fiction show goes to SNW.

 

[Mudd]

You mean:

"The Emmy for the most extravagant fantasy drama pretending to be a science fiction show goes to Star Trek."

From the beginning...