I won't be shocked if it's revealed that the Shepherd commander was modeled on the Visitors from the end of CE3K.
Spoilers Strange New Worlds 1x02 - "Children of The Comet"
- Thread starter Mudd
- Start date
Hard disagree. One of Patrick Stewart's best performances as Jean-Luc Picard was when he was bawling his eyes out in his family's vineyard. That's Humanity.
That is a deeply unhealthy way of viewing human psychology that perpetuates trauma, suffering, and unhealthy coping mechanisms. No work of art should intentionally advocate or reflect that view.
But works of fiction reflect our values. If the narrative is designed to avoid depicting the consequences (grief and trauma) of horrific events (the deaths of loved ones) while telling the audience to enjoy seeing heroic figures endure those horrific events, then the narrative is sending a message to the audience about what kind of values to hold and how real people ought to behave.
That's why I used the words "artistically dishonest" to describe the idea of a character losing loved ones but never grieving on-screen.
I cannot possibly disagree more.
There's plenty of hurt and misery in real life. And there's also plenty to learn from real life. When I watch fiction I want to be entertained. I don't watch a movie and think "oh, the character's acting that way so I should do that to." I get no message or lesson from fiction.
Well-written works of fiction can reflect our values, as you say, and they can reflect a lot of things. But they should draw from life, not the other way around.
You may think you don't, but how many children grow up thinking they're not supposed to cry to admit to hurt because they never see tough-guy hero figures in films and TV shows do so? We all absorb values and norms from the media we consume, whether we are consciously aware of it or not.
And in real life, only sociopaths incapable of love do not grieve.
Well, okay, I'm watching it again.
(With CC on to maybe pickup dialogue touches I may have missed.)
(With CC on to maybe pickup dialogue touches I may have missed.)
They grow up that way because real people tell them that. How many people do you know weaved their own moral fabric from TV shows? They draw all this from family, friends and relations. As you say, fiction reflects our values. The ones we have already.
Media in general? Sure, because that includes non-fictional media.
That's why we shouldn't hold fictional character as people to be emulated. They are simulacra wholly written by someone, and are not real people. Draw your values from real people and real events, not fictional ones.
Okay, no, really. What is going outside the windows in Pike's.... "quarters" during the dinner scene?
I'm starting to think Hemmer will be the McCoy of the main characters. The resident ship's grouch who knows how good he is at his job and occasionally loses his temper and backtalks superior officers. And I'm so ready for it.
And because it's a lesson they absorb from the culture around them!
Most people are influenced by the media they consume! Art and media are very good at communicating and normalizing values to people, at making ideas seem natural and familiar, at persuading people to internalize those ideas. The idea that anyone consumes media without being affected by it is nonsense.
That's why artists have a moral obligation to be psychologically honest in the narratives they construct. And if you're doing a TV show about characters coping with death, that means you should depict those characters struggling with grief and trauma. That doesn't mean it has to take over your show. But if you, say, depict your protagonist as losing a woman he had fallen in love with in one episode, and then losing his brother in the next episode, and you never bring up either event again in the rest of the series and never again depict him grieving for his partner or his brother? Then you are perpetuating a dishonest narrative, and you are telling your audience that grief is a bad thing whether you intend to or not, and you are perpetuating harmful ideas about toxic stoicism whether you intend to or not.
TL;DR: Do what SNW and DIS are doing: Depict grief and trauma honestly. Don't do what TOS and most of TNG did by ignoring them.
Huh. Didn't notice that before. I guess the blinds are closed?
I want to know what's behind this door...
The holodeck.
Whoah. The red button, kid. Don't ever push the red button.Huh. Didn't notice that before. I guess the blinds are closed?
I want to know what's behind this door...
Exactly my point! They absorb it from culture. From the stuff that matters. People -- including children -- can tell the difference between reality and fiction. Quite trivially, in fact. They know one matters and the other doesn't (unless it's to argue about pointless minutiae on internet forums! Then it's WAR!)
That is a much more general statement than what was contained in my question. "Influenced" and "media" could mean anything. What I'm saying is that we don't -- and certainly shouldn't -- draw morality from works of fiction, specifically.
Take HBO's Rome. Great series, but most of the characters are, by today's standards, morally bankrupt. Does anyone suddenly want to embrace ancient Roman culture because they enjoy the show? Nope.
Huh. Didn't notice that before. I guess the blinds are closed?
I want to know what's behind this door...
The playhouse of one Pee-Wee Herman.
V
Vale
Guest
I don't watch sci-fi to see people recovering from a broken bone either, but if Kirk fractured his leg and then ten minutes was swaggering about without so much as a limp or a word of explanation I'd think it remarkably odd.
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