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Spoilers Strange New Worlds 1x01 - "Strange New Worlds"

Rate the Episode

  • 1 - Excellent

    Votes: 147 45.9%
  • 2

    Votes: 81 25.3%
  • 3

    Votes: 60 18.8%
  • 4

    Votes: 12 3.8%
  • 5

    Votes: 5 1.6%
  • 6

    Votes: 4 1.3%
  • 7

    Votes: 5 1.6%
  • 8

    Votes: 6 1.9%
  • 9

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 10 - Terrible

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    320
  • Poll closed .
A Private Little War was commentary on the US and Soviet's proxy wars around the world. Patterns of Force, John Gill and entertaining the idea fascism is a good idea if done right. The Doomsday Machine, speaks for itself on the MAD doctrine. Trek has always been very pointed on modern politics.
Of course it was. Wrapping it in "the Klingons" and so forth is the very essence of allegory.

What didn't happen was that the Enterprise did not run a footage reel of Lyndon Johnson and Leonid Brezhnev and talk about how their actions led to WW3, at which point it would have stopped being an allegory and started being a sermon, and an unnecessarily divisive one at that.
 
Of course it was. Wrapping it in "the Klingons" and so forth is the very essence of allegory.

What didn't happen was that the Enterprise did not run a footage reel of Lyndon Johnson and Leonid Brezhnev and talk about how their actions led to WW3, at which point it would have stopped being an allegory and started being a sermon, and an unnecessarily divisive one at that.
That's quibbling.
 
That's quibbling.
No, that's the difference between being able to tell a story *just* removed enough from reality to make a point (see the very definition of "allegory" - "hidden meaning" - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory), and making a direct reference, which stops it being allegory and makes it direct political commentary.

It may not be important to you - possibly because you agree with the sentiment? - but the power of doing it that way is that it's generally acceptable to all sides and still sends the message.

Dialogue, not a bigger stick.
 
Personally, as someone who generally agrees with all of Star Trek's progressive messages, I wish they'd be a bit more subtle and clever about it. Preaching to the choir is more fun for the preacher than the choir.
 
I was just pointing out a distinction between the way SNW did it and the way Trek has historically done it, as a counter-point to the claim that Trek has always done this sort of thing. My point is simply that usually Trek makes its real-life points by representing them with fictional counterparts rather than addressing the issue directly.

TOS literally had an episode with literal Nazis.
 
Of course it was. Wrapping it in "the Klingons" and so forth is the very essence of allegory.

What didn't happen was that the Enterprise did not run a footage reel of Lyndon Johnson and Leonid Brezhnev and talk about how their actions led to WW3, at which point it would have stopped being an allegory and started being a sermon, and an unnecessarily divisive one at that.
The TOS episode was very definitely a sermon.
 
As I recall, hitting people with a brick and telling them they were dumbasses is what got Trump elected in the first place.
That's blaming the other side for one's own vote. No, that's not what got Trump elected; that's just a post-hoc justification.

TOS literally had an episode with literal Nazis.
And you think the exception somehow counters an argument that contains the word "usually"?
 
Yet all the furious fans crying moDeRN tREk iS toO wOkE show that clearly, not everyone is getting the message.
That's the thing though, those particular fans didn't get the message when it was subtle and they're bitching about the message when it's not, so is there any point in making more overt messages for them?
 
That's the thing though, those particular fans didn't get the message when it was subtle and they're bitching about the message when it's not, so is there any point in making more overt messages for them?
at least it makes them angry enough to crawl out from under their rocks and protest.
 
TOS literally had an episode with literal Nazis.
This is literally the invocation of Godwin's Law :lol:

The TOS episode was very definitely a sermon.
It was. But it was still allegorical. And therein lay its power to speak to everyone. This is a comment numerous writers, production staff and critics have raised over decades - the power of Trek to get messages across by depersonalising it *just enough* from those being criticised.

Yet all the furious fans crying moDeRN tREk iS toO wOkE show that clearly, not everyone is getting the message.
Or maybe, we prefer not being beaten around the head with the message? Often it isn't what you say, so much as how you say it that's the problem.

That's blaming the other side for one's own vote. No, that's not what got Trump elected; that's just a post-hoc justification.
Actually not. I spent five days in Washington around Trump's inauguration, out of sheer desire to comprehend what was going on (as a Brit far removed).

The most overriding message I took away, particularly from speaking to moderate Republicans who had nonetheless swung under him: we got sick of being shouted at, preached at, scorned, so we sent someone back to Washington to go hit the other side back even harder. I have to say, it was a huge learning experience (that and the views of people on the International Women's Protest the next day) and it put me in mind of Aesop's fable of the sun and wind: forcing your agenda ultimately fails, persuasion and encouragement ultimately works.

THAT is the fallacy of using a bigger stick. When you villify "the other side", you hit two types of people: people who don't care what you think (and so your shouting is wasted), and people who are willing to listen, but get hardened when they're called names and yelled at. Bigger stick mentality is EXACTLY what went on there. Let's hope we get a few more uniters in power in more countries.

at least it makes them angry enough to crawl out from under their rocks and protest.
And thus, the cycle continued...
 
The most overriding message I took away, particularly from speaking to moderate Republicans who had nonetheless swung under him: we got sick of being shouted at, preached at, scorned, so we sent someone back to Washington to go hit the other side back even harder.
Which is again blaming someone else for their OWN decisions, which was my point. THEY made the call to vote for a racist despot conman, and now they claim it was because their feelings were hurt (hurt by propagandists on their own side claiming to speak for the opposition, that is). It's on them, and on no one else.
 
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Personally, as someone who generally agrees with all of Star Trek's progressive messages, I wish they'd be a bit more subtle and clever about it. Preaching to the choir is more fun for the preacher than the choir.

I tend to agree. Mostly because the more shades of grey you can add to a story the better it usually is. People who can be very political and yet really good in their writing I think is kind of rare. Everyone might want to be Aaron Sorkin but not everyone is Aaron Sorkin. Though it might also be partly because I love stories about anti-heroes and bad people I guess you could call them like The Sopranos and Dexter and so forth. Things were you have to find the humanity in people who we would not want to be around if they were real people.
 
I don't think they're in a committed romantic relationship. They're clearly friends and they clearly care about each other, but she literally says that she hopes he's not on Earth the next time she is,

She said that out of concern. Pike has (at that point) all but left Star Fleet. She hopes he gets his space-legs back and goes back "out there" exploring.
 
It was. But it was still allegorical. And therein lay its power to speak to everyone.

It was a complete joke, and an embarrassment. And it was as subtle as a baseball bat.

Declaring bad writing to be indirect, effective and clever does not make it so.

I don't know that I love the visuals with Pike's speech, but I'll take his words over the sledgehammer, trite and self-congratulatory bad messaging of TOS episodes like "A Private Little War" or "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" seven days a week.
 
Which is again blaming someone else for their OWN decisions, which was my point. THEY made the call to vote for a racist despot conman, and now they claim it was because their feelings were hurt (hurt by propagandists on their own side claiming to speak for the opposition, that is). It's on them, and on no one else.
Sure, you can go with that. But failure to understand reaction, counterreation, etc means you can except more of the same.

It's the same in criminal justice. Of course criminals are responsible for their own actions. And yet, longer prison sentences don't deter them, but treating the causes of societal breakdown tends to stop it happening.

Or, just hit them with a bigger stick if you prefer.
 
Rewatching the first ep, I had two thoughts about the beam-down. (And apologies if I'm repeating stuff, it's a long thread.) I get Pike's "Why is it always an alley?" is supposed to be light-hearted picking, but you'd think it was pretty obviously so that they don't beam down in the middle of a crowd. And apparently the transporter can change your clothes now? Not that it shouldn't, just...unexpected.
 
I can easily see 9/11 and Trumpism following the Eugenics Wars in the Trek timeline. There's nothing contradictory here.
There might be a fictional politician in place of Trump in Trek's version of history, and I see no problem with that. Lawsuit avoidance is a sensible practice up to a point.
 
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