Sorry if this has been mentioned before in the thread, but one of Pike's favorite movies is about a first contact mission, and his assignment when he returns to Enterprise, is to find out what happened to a UFP first contact mission.
Spoilers Strange New Worlds 1x01 - "Strange New Worlds"
- Thread starter Mudd
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Sorry if this has been mentioned before in the thread, but one of Pike's favorite movies is about a first contact mission, and his assignment when he returns to Enterprise, is to find out what happened to a UFP first contact mission.
And he delivers almost precisely the same message to the leaders on Kiley that Klaatu delivers to the U.N.
Exactly. He also uses Enterprise as both Gort and his ship.And he delivers almost precisely the same message to the leaders on Kiley that Klaatu delivers to the U.N.
Isn't that what they're trying to show though? They are in a long-term relationship. The physical and verbal cuesin that scene seem to indicate as much. And if you watch the episode Amok Time again you'll see that at no point does Spock say they haven't seen each other since they were children, only that there was a ceremony when they were kids and the one they're attending will finalize the deal.
T'Pring also states that she has no other way to divorce him but through the challenge. (Maybe because his life is now on the line). And she picked the puny human as her champion because she didn't want either Spock or Stonn to die.The likelihood that Kirk would win that fight was pretty low. So it was logical but, I posit, also came from an emotional place.
I'm kind of excited to see what new layers we get to uncover about Vulcan culture, what new tidbits will be added to existing lore. Like maybe Vulcan culture is not homogeneous. Maybe people have a wide variety of opinions and behaviors operating within the basic tenants of Surak's teachings. Maybe there are people who think sex is just another bodily function and why deny it? And others who think (like many of our religions) that physical desire should be denied. We've already seen extremist behaviors in Vulcans from both ends of the logical spectrum. I reckon that, just like humans, most of them fall somewhere in the middle. Just regular guys going to work and then picking up their kids from the learning centers.
Also, they are a lovely, but entirely made-up, people.
I thought they were freaking adorable together.
But really, what a time to be a Trekkie!
In Trek's first 50 years there had been five series. And now, concurrently, there are another five. Whether or not you like each series individually, that's pretty amazing, though I don't know the viewership ratings for them.
In Trek's first 50 years there had been five series. And now, concurrently, there are another five. Whether or not you like each series individually, that's pretty amazing, though I don't know the viewership ratings for them.
Well, we know some Vulcan's are definitely more hardcore in how they act compared to the norm, since Kohlinar, the final purge of all emotions, is obviously not that common a practice among Vulcans, and the ones who do go through with it seem (from the little bit we've seen) to live apart from the regular Vulcans.
But, I'm still of the mind that T'Pring was acting 100% logically, from her point of view, in Amok Time, and that casual sex is both something Spock would never do, and not usual for Vulcans who aren't in a relationship either, simply because physical pleasure is no more a Vulcan thing then openly laughing or crying is. There are bound to be some Sybok's running around doing it, but I think it being casual here is just a bad side effect of the show being under the control of the same people doing DSC, and something that doesn't fit with Vulcan's as they were portrayed in the 1963-2005 Star Trek run.
Again, I still really liked the episode, but that sub plot is pretty obviously the bad elements from modern Trek bleeding through to a show that is mostly staying away from that style, and as long as it stays at that level it won't effect my enjoyment of the show.
I enjoy each of the 5 new shows so I've been very happy. I especially love how each show feels completely different.
Indeed. Not sure how I feel about each yet as it's too early, save for DSC.
Here you're confusing having a feeling with expressing it. Laughing is an expression. Feeling pleasure is not something they can control. But they can control how they respond to it. If there's a rational reason to, they will express those feelings. I think you're not giving Vulcan culture enough credit.
Vulcans are, as Nimoy rightly observed, often played quite wrong. They are played like robots when he worked to portray Spock as someone who had his emotions contained, but they always simmered beneath the surface.
The episode you mention is at least six to seven years in Mister Spock's future at the point that this episode takes place. Perhaps he developed that viewpoint due to something that happened between him and T'Pring 6 to 7 years earlier
People change over time.
I think some folks are missing the fact that Spock and T'Pring were celebrating the next logical step in their relationship ...
Their "Proposal Ceremony".
They specifically went out for an evening meal and then returned to a special suite to consummate their earlier Betrothal after T'Pring formally proposed to Spock.
(Hell, even the waiter was well aware of their intent as he practically told them to "get a room")
Unfortunately, Pike interrupted the ceremony and Spock being the dutiful Star Fleet Officer, responded.
Idiot.
I also believe that some of the scenes we've seen in the trailers indicate that Spock soon realizes his error ...
Their "Proposal Ceremony".
They specifically went out for an evening meal and then returned to a special suite to consummate their earlier Betrothal after T'Pring formally proposed to Spock.
(Hell, even the waiter was well aware of their intent as he practically told them to "get a room")
Unfortunately, Pike interrupted the ceremony and Spock being the dutiful Star Fleet Officer, responded.
Idiot.
I also believe that some of the scenes we've seen in the trailers indicate that Spock soon realizes his error ...
I think the fight we see with two of him, may indicate he goes into a Ponn Farr cycle.
Spock even mentions it's their anniversary. Anniversary, getting engaged, nice meal-- uh of course they're going to have sex afterwards. It's certainly not 'casual sex'.
And as for 'doing it solely for physical pleasure', Vulcans are touch telepathic. There's just no way there isn't a mental component to Vulcan sex.
But Spock isn't doing casual sex, he's in a committed relationship with T'Pring.
... and it's obviously a very special point in that relationship.
I would imagine that they probably become even closer by mind-melding during the sex.
This is the point when they actually commit to each other for the rest of their lives.
... and again, Spock screws it up. (by not fucking)
It's not "casual" if they are in a long term relationship! Unless you believe all sex outside of marriage is always"casual."
I do not. We view the material through our own very Earth Human cultural biases it seems.
me too. I know that there are always people who scream “cannon violation” every time an alien doesn’t do what they expect, but I praise all efforts at showing more diverse alien cultures. Bring in black Vulcans, pacifist Klingons, atheist Bajorans and scientists ferengi!
I hope not. That might clash a bit more with Amok Time, especially if he opens up to the crew.
Regarding the sex, it was not casual at all and I’m all in favour of what they are doing with his and t’pring’s relationship, retroactively making Amok Time much more sensible. The only detail I didn’t like was the kiss, which I found too human. I loved the old thing with the fingers in the TOS and TNG episodes: alien and still clearly intimate.
*Canon.
That's one of the many things I loved about DS9: the Cardassians were portrayed as an actual people, rather than an archetype.
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