Spoilers Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Grading & Discussion

[Campe]

It's an interesting theory but I can't buy that the Palpatine we had been watching up until Episode 9 was a Clone. I mean, wtf was the real Palpatine doing? Just hanging around?

I didn't say that. I initially suggested that the only time Palpatine was a clone was Return of the Jedi. The prequels, the holo in Empire, all the real Palps. The only time its clonePalps is Jedi. Palpatine was cunning. He was so engrossed in the dark side of the Force and was able to see more than most before it happened. He was pulling the strings at every single step along the way. But being that cunning, think about it... Why would he take himself into so much danger at Endor that either the station could be destroyed or Luke or Vader could end him, why take the chance? So, he cloned himself. And gave the clone just enough information to have that arrogance. Admittedly, my one issue with that is: If he could see that, why would he go down the path he did in The Rise of Skywalker? Getting both Kylo and Rey there was certainly a danger to him. Unless he couldn't see past the moment of getting the power from the two of them. Its not a perfect theory, admittedly. But its also not as "terrible" as some think.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Not sure if this has been referenced or not but apparently the SW: TROS visual dictionary provides an explanation for some of the Palpatine mystery https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a...e-of-skywalker-palpatine-return-sith-eternal/

 

[Saul]

I didn't say that. I initially suggested that the only time Palpatine was a clone was Return of the Jedi. The prequels, the holo in Empire, all the real Palps. The only time its clonePalps is Jedi. Palpatine was cunning. He was so engrossed in the dark side of the Force and was able to see more than most before it happened. He was pulling the strings at every single step along the way. But being that cunning, think about it... Why would he take himself into so much danger at Endor that either the station could be destroyed or Luke or Vader could end him, why take the chance? So, he cloned himself. And gave the clone just enough information to have that arrogance. Admittedly, my one issue with that is: If he could see that, why would he go down the path he did in The Rise of Skywalker? Getting both Kylo and Rey there was certainly a danger to him. Unless he couldn't see past the moment of getting the power from the two of them. Its not a perfect theory, admittedly. But its also not as "terrible" as some think.

That theory wouldn't explain the face though. Why clone himself with the same messed up face? And why would the real Palpatine with the messed up face in ROTS and TESB have a not so messed up face in TROS?

 

[fireproof78]

Palpatine's face is one thing that has bothered me across the series. It is never consistent from ROTS to ESB to ROTJ and TROS.

Personally, I think that that TROS Palpatine is a clone, but due to the limits of the cloning tech and spirit transfer the body is degraded.

 

[Campe]

That theory wouldn't explain the face though. Why clone himself with the same messed up face? And why would the real Palpatine with the messed up face in ROTS and TESB have a not so messed up face in TROS?

If he was going to clone himself and trick Vader, he needs to look as though Vader always knows him, doesn't he?
The face issue is more complicated. Perhaps it has something to do with the Sith Eternal referenced in @Captaindemotion 's post above. Or perhaps what we saw in TRoS wasn't the first time Palpatine healed himself using the power of a Jedi. We still don't know what happened to Ezra.

 

[doylem1]

Just came back from watching the movie and all the doom and gloom and bad reviews I see plastered on youtube really aren't warranted.

I went into this film expecting a complete mess of a movie, I was light-heartedly joking with a friend about how Rey Batwomened the Skywalker name by taking Lukes lightsabre, Jedi books, manhood in their duel , his x-wing, his best friends ship, pet Wookie, droids and lastly the Skywalker name.

The film is the best of the Disney films, it may not be a classic but it is over 2hrs 30 odd minutes of escapism and entertainment.

Finn was given stuff to do in this film and his bromance with Poe was enjoyable.
Rose although limited screentime this film had good scenes.
I liked Kyo's redemption although I would have preferred he lived and completed further redemption by agreeing to face trial for his 1st order acts it would have been different to Vaders end.
I'd have to watch it again but the main disappointment was Billy Dee Williams Lando, He felt shoehorned into the movie and the dialogue he was given felt like he was just doing catchphrases from the OT. It may be the actor's age and that youthful charisma and charm he had in the OT didn't come across as well ?

solid B+

 

[Kor]

I've always thought Palpatine's disfigured face in ROTS looked even more messed up than his appearance in ROTJ, which was later chronologically. In retrospect, maybe he healed a little over the years, or his raw and fresh wounds in ROTS just dried up. Or maybe it's just because we can see more of the upper part of his forehead in ROTS. The makeup was definitely different.

I liked the old fanon explanation (before ROTS) that his gnarly appearance was the result of his close involvement with the destructive and corrupting energies of the Dark Side. So the cloned bodies in "Dark Empire" ended up looking physically ravaged like that in short order as well.

On a completely different note, is it just me, or did Billy Dee Williams come across as being mildly amused to even be in Star Wars again?

Kor

 

[Reverend]

Palpatine's face is one thing that has bothered me across the series. It is never consistent from ROTS to ESB to ROTJ and TROS.

I've always taken it as an unnatural ageing, twisting or mutation that results from being that steeped in the dark side. The ageing part at least seems to track with how Anakin looked under the helmet when really he was only in his mid-to-late 40's, and the yellow eyes seen on him, Palpatine himself and Maul prove that the dark side does indeed have *some* physical effect.
I've also always been more of the opinion that Palpatine has always looked like that and the bit with Windu was just a little theatrics as he dropped the illusion he'd been projecting (which we also may have seen him do in Rebels.) Aside from the above, nobody else that we saw get hit with lighting ended up looking like that. Yoda and Obi-Wan both got hit and were mostly unscathed. Hell, look took *way* more than Palps did and it just left him smoking a bit. No burns, no deformity, no weird voice.

As to why it's so inconsistent; most of it I'm willing to let slide as just the production realities of movie making (see also: Alec Guinness's wandering hairpiece) but if one must have an explanation then you could just say that the visible effect of the dark side varies and fluctuates over time (Anakin's yellow eyes certainly do); maybe it depends on how much of an illusion he's projecting, or a combination of the two.

Personally, I think that that TROS Palpatine is a clone, but due to the limits of the cloning tech and spirit transfer the body is degraded.

I'd be astonished if JJ gave it even that much thought.

 

[Campe]

Honestly, the first three aren't that different, certainly not that much enough to suggest that they couldn't be in line. I mean, remember that the actor has a significant age difference between Jedi and Sith/Empire SE and the makeup is different. (I do wonder why they didn't just try to recreate it the best they could as opposed to re-imagining it. But the Rise of Skywalker one does certainly bring up questions as to why he looks so smooth in comparison to the others? Perhaps, as McDiarmid would be in his late 70s, he didn't want to undergo that much makeup for the return to the role. For an onscreen explanation, I go back to the Sith magic thing as a possibility.

 

[Amos]

It's an interesting theory but I can't buy that the Palpatine we had been watching up until Episode 9 was a Clone. I mean, wtf was the real Palpatine doing? Just hanging around?

He was obviously bumpin' uglies with at least one woman.

 

[fireproof78]

I'd be astonished if JJ gave it even that much thought.

Clone degradation is pretty much a part of lore, as it Sith corruption to the body. It doesn't require that much thought.

 

[Jaster]

Agreed. That is a terrible excuse. In ROTJ, Palpatine did not foresee his own death at all; no one screams as they are hurled down a shaft it they were expecting it all along, and if they did, they would certainly have prepared to counter any attempt to make that vision a reality.

I scream when I go on a really fast rollercoaster, even though I’m expecting the drop. But I’m just a big girl’s blouse. Maybe Palps is too...

 

[Captaindemotion]

He was obviously bumpin' uglies with at least one woman.

*Gif of Jerry Seinfeld going “that’s enough internet today.”*

 

[Reverend]

Clone degradation is pretty much a part of lore, as it Sith corruption to the body. It doesn't require that much thought.

Agreed. And yet, I stand by my point.

 

[fireproof78]

Agreed. And yet, I stand by my point.

Agree to disagree.

And I'll never understand the need to take digs at production teams.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

idk Return of the Jedi was a great ending to the story. And Palpatine in that movie had a plan.. and the way he was beaten plays into the themes of the story. Him having forseen his own demise is a pipsqueek's excuse for the sequel they made and it undermines what was accomplished.

 

[Campe]

idk Return of the Jedi was a great ending to the story. And Palpatine in that movie had a plan.. and the way he was beaten plays into the themes of the story. Him having forseen his own demise is a pipsqueek's excuse for the sequel they made and it undermines what was accomplished.

It was a good ending. No question about that. And it was one that absolutely held for three decades. But the legal copyright holders decided to make a new trilogy and supplant that ending. You can always simply choose to ignore the sequel trilogy. They'll still exist, but no one would hold your desire that they didn't against you.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Again, the thing that bugs me the most about Palpatine's resurrection is that it raises the question, does anyone ever truly DIE in the SW universe. It cheapens death, robs it of its meaning.

I mean, if Palpatine can return after being blown up in ROTJ, who's to say that he couldn't come back AGAIN after ROTS? Is he like the Borg, an unstoppable enemy?

 

[BillJ]

Again, the thing that bugs me the most about Palpatine's resurrection is that it raises the question, does anyone ever truly DIE in the SW universe.

That has become the status quo in pretty much every franchise universe. I'm honestly surprised that CBS hasn't approached Shatner about coming back as the original Kirk. It could still happen if Picard is a major hit for them.

It is nothing new that people have a hard time of letting go of characters they like. If that is where the money is at, Hollywood is going to be more than happy to oblige.

 

[fireproof78]

idk Return of the Jedi was a great ending to the story. And Palpatine in that movie had a plan.. and the way he was beaten plays into the themes of the story. Him having forseen his own demise is a pipsqueek's excuse for the sequel they made and it undermines what was accomplished.

I don't see how. His plans were still foiled, the Death Star destroyed and he had to work his way back up again.

It's basically the story of the Hobbit moving in to Lord of the Rings.

I agree that ROTJ is a great ending to the story and for the longest time it was "The End" for me. But, the ST doesn't invalidate what story choices were made in ROTJ. It exposes the Sith philosophy in a way that really was only handled in the novels. They are forever trying to escape death and yet it constantly pursues them.

Palpatine's coming back is just a rather literal example of that.

Again, the thing that bugs me the most about Palpatine's resurrection is that it raises the question, does anyone ever truly DIE in the SW universe. It cheapens death, robs it of its meaning.

I mean, if Palpatine can return after being blown up in ROTJ, who's to say that he couldn't come back AGAIN after ROTS? Is he like the Borg, an unstoppable enemy?

The same can be asked of the Jedi. Why worry about if they die now?