Spoilers Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Grading & Discussion

[Lakenheath 72]

I went to see the film for a fifth time yesterday. It's comfort food in this time of anxiety. Anyway, I was speaking to someone who worked at the theatre. She told me that she was hearing mixed reviews from people who had seen the film.

I noticed for the first time more evidence of the rushed editing of this film. Ben arrives at the Sith HQ with a gun with a distinctive red light. He is carrying the gun in his right hand and has no way of holstering the weapon. He jumps onto the chain, which is seen as early as his first trip to the location. He is not seen with the weapon upon landing on the chain. Later, he is seen holding the weapon, using it to kill Sith troops and when he is confronted by the Knights of Ren. The weapon disappears at this point. He is seen later being roughed up by the Knights and not defending himself with the weapon.

I am, as well, becoming more aware of the abrupt transitions between scenes, that scenes don't seamlessly flow into other scenes.

 

[BillJ]

I noticed for the first time more evidence of the rushed editing of this film.

If it took five times to notice, then I'd say it didn't ruin the experience.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I've finally seen it. It's a hard one to describe. There was a lot I liked: The imagery was fantastic, the performances good. The Leia stuff was strange since it's all the other actors very obviously talking around few phrases they could repurpose. Palpantine was an ass-pull villain. His being Snoke only makes sense if there's any reason for it, and as far as I can tell there isn't. My boy Kylo got a decent and suitably tragic ending. I loved how they evolved the telepathic link stuff to include transferring objects.

Ultimately though I'm sitting at home feeling... meh. For comparison, The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi left me buzzing with excitement.

 

[JD]

Cool! But the link took me to a story about Christian Bale in Thor 4.

Oops, sorry about that. One thing mentioned in the article, I've seen mentioned before, is that he was voiced by the actress who played Moaning Myrtle in the Harry Potter movies According to the IGN article about him, she was even on set doing his dialogue and working the puppet's mouth at the same time.
Io9's James Whitbrook has posted an article where he tries to figure out when exactly Rey's father was conceived.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Come to think of it though, if that was a clone body and not the one that died in Jedi, why did he look like he did in Jedi? A new clone should have looked like the version from the prequels.

 

[Saul]

Come to think of it though, if that was a clone body and not the one that died in Jedi, why did he look like he did in Jedi? A new clone should have looked like the version from the prequels.

I'm 50/50 on this. His fingers are screwed up and half his body is gone which implies to me that he was the Palpatine from the Death Star. But when you look at his face it's normal, it doesn't looked messed up like it was at the end of the prequels and in ROTJ. So what's going on there? Did he heal his face?

 

[Gov Kodos]

Botox

 

[cooleddie74]

Sheev Don't Crack.

 

[General_Phoenix]

So was the Palpatine from the prequels and the OT a clone? Sounds like the real Palps has been controlling everything from Exegol for generations.

 

[Campe]

So was the Palpatine from the prequels and the OT a clone? Sounds like the real Palps has been controlling everything from Exegol for generations.

Until told otherwise, my head canon (as much as I hate that term) suggests that the only time that Palps was a clone was in ROTJ. As he suggested in that movie, "Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen." He knew exactly what was going to happen. And he would have been far too arrogant to go to Endor for the final battle if he had any sense of the future. Some may make the argument that this cheapens Anakin's sacrifice. I disagree. He still saved his son. He still rejected the dark side. He gave the galaxy an uneasy peace for awhile and unfortunately, it ended up coming back up in a big way. But there is always a "next" thing. Sidious was "The Phantom Menace" through all nine films, pulling the strings every step along the way. Could it have been handled better in the sequels? Sure. But it still works. At least in my opinion.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Until told otherwise, my head canon (as much as I hate that term) suggests that the only time that Palps was a clone was in ROTJ. As he suggested in that movie, "Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen." He knew exactly what was going to happen. And he would have been far too arrogant to go to Endor for the final battle if he had any sense of the future. Some may make the argument that this cheapens Anakin's sacrifice. I disagree. He still saved his son. He still rejected the dark side. He gave the galaxy an uneasy peace for awhile and unfortunately, it ended up coming back up in a big way. But there is always a "next" thing. Sidious was "The Phantom Menace" through all nine films, pulling the strings every step along the way. Could it have been handled better in the sequels? Sure. But it still works. At least in my opinion.

That is a good idea. That said, comics, film series, what have you, uber bad guys are never really dead if there's no body. And sometimes not even then. As what said of Jason Vorhees, no character this profitable will ever die.

Fun movie however P managed to survive.

 

[fireproof78]

Some may make the argument that this cheapens Anakin's sacrifice. I disagree. He still saved his son. He still rejected the dark side. He gave the galaxy an uneasy peace for awhile and unfortunately, it ended up coming back up in a big way. But there is always a "next" thing. Sidious was "The Phantom Menace" through all nine films, pulling the strings every step along the way. Could it have been handled better in the sequels? Sure. But it still works. At least in my opinion.

I share this opinion and grow very tired of the constant "The ST renders ROTJ void and Anakin's sacrifice was in vain!" It's like, how? Because evil wasn't forever defeated? Does that mean that Luke's victory at the Death Star was in vain because they built another one?

The principle storytelling trope of the SW films is that evil is always defeated for a time. It's not a forever thing. I personally really enjoyed Palpatine coming back pulling the strings. Even rewatching TFA last night I was struck by how Snoke was pretty much fixated on the destruction of the Jedi. TROS added so much detail in to that character and I loved it more for it.

Finally, I don't recall any objections to the Emperor coming back in the books, though I could be wrong. I don't recall the furor over the Emperor having a son in the books. Has much as I hear complaints that the ST deviated from SW, I honestly don't think it did as much as people think.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Until told otherwise, my head canon (as much as I hate that term) suggests that the only time that Palps was a clone was in ROTJ. As he suggested in that movie, "Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen." He knew exactly what was going to happen. And he would have been far too arrogant to go to Endor for the final battle if he had any sense of the future. Some may make the argument that this cheapens Anakin's sacrifice. I disagree. He still saved his son. He still rejected the dark side. He gave the galaxy an uneasy peace for awhile and unfortunately, it ended up coming back up in a big way. But there is always a "next" thing. Sidious was "The Phantom Menace" through all nine films, pulling the strings every step along the way. Could it have been handled better in the sequels? Sure. But it still works. At least in my opinion.

that's a terrible excuse. If he had foreseen his own demise he would not have been screaming when it happened. No head canon can fix a terrible story tacked onto an already completed story

 

[Campe]

that's a terrible excuse. If he had foreseen his own demise he would not have been screaming when it happened. No head canon can fix a terrible story tacked onto an already completed story

We're all entitled to our opinions.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Thanks. I think you've done a good, almost comprehensive job here, in breaking down quite a few of the things that make Finn a racially retrogressive character. While reading your reply here, I thought about Anakin in The Phantom Menace. Even as a young kid, clearly described and depicted as a slave (where it's not explicitly stated with Finn and the First Order child soldier Stormtroopers), he had more agency and personhood than Finn did, in The Force Awakens and arguably throughout most of the rest of the sequel trilogy. Anakin asserted that he was a person clearly in that film.

...and that says much about Kathleen Kennedy, et al., that in the PT, Lucas could create a little white boy who defined his plight as a slave, while in the ST--a series run by the most "socially progressive" people on earth (and they never let a moment pass by to remind everyone of that) Finn barely said a word about his background, or presented a valid reason (in between sweating spells) why he left the FO. We do not even have the sense of the FO doing anything of note to him that would inspire his need to flee. His greatest development was running, panting and being the Back Buffoon while every other main character had their own stories...and dignity.

I was curious by what you meant by an idiotic response to Lando in Empire Strikes Back.

In 1980, there were some movie-goers who held some resentment toward Lando for "betraying" Han and the others, ignoring that Vader did not give him a choice in the matter. Apparently, realistic character reactions soared right over their heads, since some thought Lando should have refused and/or made some stand. Yeah...they must have been asleep and missed the part about the Empire being this mighty force that even an opposing army was incapable of stopping.

Thankfully, that group was small in number, because Lando was treated as an instant hero by the majority.

Though it also leads me into thinking that Lando was under no obligation to help or do right by the Rebels (outside of that they were the people the audience mostly identified with and was rooting for). It was hinted that Lando and Han had a fraught past (which one could assume meant mutual betrayals, undercutting, or they were rivals), and Lando was clearly concerned about protecting Cloud City. It's just of course Cloud City and its mostly unseen denizens meant nothing to the audience compared to Luke, Leia, Han, etc., and so it painted Lando at first in a very bad light to betray them. Perhaps if there had been more set up with Cloud City beforehand, some in the audience (including some who might have been put off by Lando working with the Empire) could've had more to weigh in their judgment or concerns about him.

Most audience members understood Lando had no choice the moment he told the others that Vader and Company arrived before they did. Its the Empire. Who was going to oppose that? His agreement was merely a formality to what that situation really was--a military takeover.

 

[fireproof78]

that's a terrible excuse. If he had foreseen his own demise he would not have been screaming when it happened. No head canon can fix a terrible story tacked onto an already completed story

Agree to disagree at this point.

There is not a single thing that the ST could do to make a good story if ROTJ is a completed story. Lucas would fail at it. No storyteller can surpass such opinions.

 

[Campe]

The principle storytelling trope of the SW films is that evil is always defeated for a time. It's not a forever thing.

Exactly this. Our heroes did not save the galaxy for it never to be at war again. When there was a lot of consternation about the fight continuing around the release of The Force Awakens, I simply said, this was never "happily ever after." Moreso, "happily ever... for now." There will always be another conflict. Another war. It is the way of people... even in a galaxy far, far away.

Finally, I don't recall any objections to the Emperor coming back in the books, though I could be wrong. I don't recall the furor over the Emperor having a son in the books. Has much as I hear complaints that the ST deviated from SW, I honestly don't think it did as much as people think.

I agree. I kind of look at the new canon as "The Highlights of the EU." It takes a lot of aspects that were dropped in: Thrawn, the resurrection of the Emperor, the Emperor's son, etc., and adds new things to weave it into a better narrative. Not one that is so convoluted and hard to approach. Of course, that is only my opinion.

There is not a single thing that the ST could do to make a good story if ROTJ is a completed story. Lucas would fail at it. No storyteller can surpass such opinions.

Pretty much this. If the reaction to the prequels were any indication, the movies would have been received far worse, based upon what we know about Lucas' proposed sequels.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

that's a terrible excuse. If he had foreseen his own demise he would not have been screaming when it happened. No head canon can fix a terrible story tacked onto an already completed story

Agreed. That is a terrible excuse. In ROTJ, Palpatine did not foresee his own death at all; no one screams as they are hurled down a shaft it they were expecting it all along, and if they did, they would certainly have prepared to counter any attempt to make that vision a reality.

 

[Campe]

Agreed. That is a terrible excuse. In ROTJ, Palpatine did not foresee his own death at all; no one screams as they are hurled down a shaft it they were expecting it all along, and if they did, they would certainly have prepared to counter any attempt to make that vision a reality.

Could it be that the clone doesn't have as much information as the real Palpatine?

 

[Saul]

Could it be that the clone doesn't have as much information as the real Palpatine?

It's an interesting theory but I can't buy that the Palpatine we had been watching up until Episode 9 was a Clone. I mean, wtf was the real Palpatine doing? Just hanging around?