Spoilers Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Grading & Discussion

[Kor]

...
That brings up a good question: What in the name of Sheev's melty face did the Sith want revenge for in the first place? Have we ever gotten an answer?

Not in the movies. I think in the old Expanded Universe, there was idea of a war hundreds of years ago in which the Jedi wiped out the Sith (or thought they did). But of course, that doesn't count anymore. I'm not sure if any of the books or comics under the Disney regime have touched on this, since I've been avoiding all of them.

Kor

 

[Noname Given]

Well, here's the thing--Disney Plus is where the real money is. What would you rather have, a bunch of people paying $15-$20 once or twice over a few months, or a bunch of people paying $7 a month every single month in perpetuity?

Is the money being made on Disney Plus, or in the theaters?

Maybe the real money is in the TV shows, which is why Kenobi is going to be a series rather than a movie.

Umm...BOTH.

Disney ISN'T going to close off a viable revenue stream - and STAR WARS related feature films ARE still very viable if you wait a few years between outings and don't try to do one every year.

 

[DarKush]

When I heard about the TROS spoilers and actually watched the film I wondered how diehard TLJ fans, like many of the official reviewers seemed to be, would handle it. And also some people who were so certain that what TLJ said about Rey's parentage would not be altered. I wonder if those people who criticized the 'vocal minority' of TLJ detractors two years ago now consider themselves part of a vocal minority or non-fans or toxic fans for not liking TROS? How would they feel when the shoe was on the other foot?

I agree with those who feel that TROS is a course correction from TLJ, in an attempt to get disenchanted fans back. However, it wasn't a complete retcon. TROS built even more on the bond between Rey and Ren. It kept her parents being 'nobody', from a certain point of view. Her parents so far don't even have names and Abrams made sure to say they were pretending to be nobodies, in an effort to have his cake and eat it too. Ren remained the leader of the First Order. Hux still conspired against him. Snoke is still dead. Luke is still dead, the First Order is still super powerful (even more so when it become the Final Order and I didn't get that impression in TFA). While the Rose/Finn relationship didn't go anywhere, they are still friends, and in real life, sometimes relationships don't work out. Plus, I never got much heat from Finn for Rose in TLJ anyway, with the interest coming more from Rose.

The end of TLJ didn't leave them with a lot of options. With Snoke dead and Ren in charge of the First Order, the war pretty much won, there was little place to go. Rey had already defeated Ren before so there wasn't much anticipation for a big showdown between them (even in TROS their lightsaber duels were overrated, and none were as thrilling as the TLJ throne room showdown-even though when I looked at that melee again, it wasn't as good as it was the first time I saw it). I don't know why we had to believe that Ren would know the truth about Rey's parents, that he was a reliable narrator. Plus, neither TLJ or TROS ever explained how he learned that information.

 

[Campe]

When I heard about the TROS spoilers and actually watched the film I wondered how diehard TLJ fans, like many of the official reviewers seemed to be, would handle it. And also some people who were so certain that what TLJ said about Rey's parentage would not be altered. I wonder if those people who criticized the 'vocal minority' of TLJ detractors two years ago now consider themselves part of a vocal minority or non-fans or toxic fans for not liking TROS? How would they feel when the shoe was on the other foot?

Not me. While I don't necessarily like how Palpatine was handled as a character, I figured TLJ was not the last word on Rey's parentage. And although its a little contrived, I don't really have an issue with the fact that Rey is Sheev's granddaughter. It is by far not the worst thing in this saga.

Do I wish that she had stayed a nobody? Yes. But I also wished that Luke would have had a major action sequence fighting the First Order in TLJ. But sometimes what you think you want and what you need aren't the same thing.

 

[Garak]

I

Maybe my definition of woke is different than yours. Strong females have existed long before the term woke existed. Here we see not just a strong female lead, but that she's stronger than every character that ever existed, and notably, all the white males. When writers weaken white males to make their woman strong, and behind the scenes wear shirts like "the Force is female," that's when it gets woke. The perfect example of a strong female lead done right is Wonder Woman. At least in the first movie. You didn't see Steve Trevor as a weak man. Was she more powerful? Of course, but Steve was not some wimp. In Justice League, they had Superman getting the better of her at one point. Did that make her look weak? Not one bit. It showed the writers were more secure in her strength. Ripley is another good example.

So what you're saying is that white men are the most powerful, purest form of humanity, that they are better than all other races or genders and to suggest otherwise is insulting and wrong

There's a phrase for that sort of belief......hmmmm

 

[Noname Given]

The end of TLJ didn't leave them with a lot of options. With Snoke dead and Ren in charge of the First Order, the war pretty much won, there was little place to go. Rey had already defeated Ren before so there wasn't much anticipation for a big showdown between them (even in TROS their lightsaber duels were overrated, and none were as thrilling as the TLJ throne room showdown-even though when I looked at that melee again, it wasn't as good as it was the first time I saw it). I don't know why we had to believe that Ren would know the truth about Rey's parents, that he was a reliable narrator. Plus, neither TLJ or TROS ever explained how he learned that information.

I feel ALL the Lightsaber duels in this final trilogy were extremely lacklusture. The best duel was in the first prequel - ST:TPM - between Qui-Gon Gin, (assisted by Obi-Wan in a spot) and Darth Maul in that ridiculous Power room.

The next best duel was between Luke and Vader in ST:ESB (I loved that y9ou had Luke using BOTH hands and Vader lolding back and going one handed for most of the fight.

And I can forgive the base/lackluster duel between Obi-Wan and Vader in the original STAR WARS as BOTH were extremely old, and Vader wasn't drawing power from Palpatine as in the original version, the Emperor wasn't supposed to be a former Sith Lord. (I actually wish Lucas had kept in that way as one of the things I LOVED about the original STAR WAS was that Obi-Wan and Vader were in effect the last of their kind; and the Empire was just run by a bunch on normal/fascist Humans.)

But yeah (IMO) all the the duels in these last three films were lacking (IMO). YMMV of course. (I also HATE Kylo Ren's saber design with the Laser-Guard edges as it would limit some of the maneuvers you could do with such a saber.)

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

So what you're saying is that white men are the most powerful, purest form of humanity, that they are better than all other races or genders and to suggest otherwise is insulting and wrong

There's a phrase for that sort of belief......hmmmm

see that is not what he is saying at all. You are not paraphrasing him you are just using a strawman argument.. an argument he never made that you can easily hit with your feeble stick

 

[Tuskin38]

At this point, Disney's narrative of blaming the 'fans' is wearing transparently thin.

Disney hasn't blamed the fans for anything.

^ If the Episodic films do come back, I'm more than willing to acknowledge that I was wrong, but there is no reason or evidence at this point for me to believe that I'm going to be wrong.

You have never admitted when you were wrong before, why would you start now?

 

[BillJ]

What Disney will learn from this is that Star Wars fans are primarily fragile white males. The next Skywalker will be a white male. Minorities and women will be kept in their “proper” places for the next go round.

 

[fireproof78]

Can we stop the personal sniping?

 

[DarKush]

I feel ALL the Lightsaber duels in this final trilogy were extremely lacklusture. The best duel was in the first prequel - ST:TPM - between Qui-Gon Gin, (assisted by Obi-Wan in a spot) and Darth Maul in that ridiculous Power room.

The next best duel was between Luke and Vader in ST:ESB (I loved that y9ou had Luke using BOTH hands and Vader lolding back and going one handed for most of the fight.

And I can forgive the base/lackluster duel between Obi-Wan and Vader in the original STAR WARS as BOTH were extremely old, and Vader wasn't drawing power from Palpatine as in the original version, the Emperor wasn't supposed to be a former Sith Lord. (I actually wish Lucas had kept in that way as one of the things I LOVED about the original STAR WAS was that Obi-Wan and Vader were in effect the last of their kind; and the Empire was just run by a bunch on normal/fascist Humans.

But yeah (IMO) all the the duels in these last three films were lacking (IMO). YMMV of course. (I also HATE Kylo Ren's saber design with the Laser-Guard edges as it would limit some of the maneuvers you could do with such a saber.)

Agree a lot with what you said about the lightsaber fights, though I liked Luke vs. Vader in ROTJ a lot. It really showed Luke's growth compared to TESB. One (of many) things I thought could've been done in TROS was have Ren finish his lightsaber. Despite not liking the crossguard design, it remained a poorly working lightsaber from TFA. It would've been a nice visual way to show his growth. In TLJ we saw he had a Jedi lightsaber, so I'm assuming he knew how to build a normal working lightsaber so why didn't he do that in TROS? I can accept that the flashback scene with Ben's lightsaber was a Rian Johnson flourish and might have gone differently if Abrams had done Episode VIII.

 

[Kor]

Did they go to Coruscant in one of the light speed hops? It looked like they went through a city at one point and I was hoping for at least one Coruscant reference, but probably not.

I thought that planet could have been Coruscant, but they didn't specifically say that it was. So I guess we'll never know.

Kor

 

[plynch]

I like TLJ in principle, though as a viewing experience it was -- meh. The whole Po-jerkiness, Canto Bight, oddly slow-moving ships, ect.

I enjoyed the viewing of this flick more, but yeah, it is cheap and easy plotting. Bad guy is back . . . because. Rey IS SOMEBODY. (Boo. She was somebody before; everyone is, just by being alive. Oh well.) Bad guy defeated. Villain we didn't really know turns good b/c vision of dad though dad-in-flesh was ineffective (?). Just not a good plot, though like I said the spectacle and experience were more fun. Weird. I'm going to pretend like this one never happened.

 

[Smellmet]

I quite liked the light saber duels in this film. I like the sounds they make, still sort of the original sound effects but with another layer of noise added, Abrams somehow makes them look like hefty objects hitting each other instead of lifeless glow sticks.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

but yeah, it is cheap and easy plotting. Bad guy is back . . . because. Rey IS SOMEBODY. (Boo. She was somebody before; everyone is, just by being alive. Oh well.) Bad guy defeated. Villain we didn't really know turns good b/c vision of dad though dad-in-flesh was ineffective (?). Just not a good plot, though like I said the spectacle and experience were more fun. Weird. I'm going to pretend like this one never happened.

I'm fairly certain some fans have already joined you in erasing the memory of this film.

 

[fireproof78]

I quite liked the light saber duels in this film. I like the sounds they make, still sort of the original sound effects but with another layer of noise added, Abrams somehow makes them look like hefty objects hitting each other instead of lifeless glow sticks.

Same here. Despite the spectacle of THE PT duels, they lack a sense of danger or effort. I prefer the OT style.

 

[Garak]

see that is not what he is saying at all. You are not paraphrasing him you are just using a strawman argument.. an argument he never made that you can easily hit with your feeble stick

Sorry, you're wrong - that's exactly what he's saying

Here we see not just a strong female lead, but that she's stronger than every character that ever existed, and notably, all the white males

He's the one who specifically singled out white males ("notably"!!!!), not me bro

Unsure as to why you'd so blindly defend that.......hmmmm.....

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Sorry, you're wrong - that's exactly what he's saying



He's the one who specifically singled out white males ("notably"!!!!), not me bro

Unsure as to why you'd so blindly defend that.......hmmmm.....

oh well. I just read it and re-read it.. and he didn't say that.. he didn't imply it.. you set up a strawman. It's just you feeling a bit insecure about an opinion that didn't fit with what you believe. Please quote the part where he says that white men are the most powerful form of humanity etc?

 

[WarpFactorZ]

They're still going to do movies, they just won't be part of the Skywalker Saga.
As for if this really is the end of the Skywalker Saga, it's pretty clear that the current plan is for this to be the end, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't end up changing the minds a few years from now and doing more.
They've also said that they aren't abandoning the sequel trilogy characters, so it sounds like even if the "Skywalker Saga" is over, the characters involved in it might still pop up in other places.

So, basically the Skywalker saga is going to continue, and will likely involve a new trilogy in the future.

 

[Kor]

...
And I can forgive the base/lackluster duel between Obi-Wan and Vader in the original STAR WARS as BOTH were extremely old, and Vader wasn't drawing power from Palpatine as in the original version, the Emperor wasn't supposed to be a former Sith Lord. (I actually wish Lucas had kept in that way as one of the things I LOVED about the original STAR WAS was that Obi-Wan and Vader were in effect the last of their kind; and the Empire was just run by a bunch on normal/fascist Humans.)
...

Yeah, Palpatine was originally described in the first novelization as this figurehead who was being manipulated by ambitious, power-hungry politicians or something, and he basically shut himself away and let them run everything. In that light, the Emperor dissolving the senate probably would have meant that he just put his signature on a bill that they shoved in front of him as an administrative formality. Then ESB came along and showed that he was more involved in ruling his empire, and that he could sense the Force. And the rest is history.

ETA: Though, being the manipulative so-and-so that he was, I could see him keeping up the appearances of being a mere figurehead in that way, while actually tightly controlling everything himself behind the scenes through his grasp of the Dark Side.

Speaking of the Force... I found it quite interesting that this trilogy depicted more spectacular Force powers at last. Previously we only saw such stuff in the tie-in materials, but this is the first time the movies actually give some idea of how "the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force."

Kor