Some family is important, other members are simply there to use you. Something I’ve experienced all too often in real life.
Spoilers Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Some family is important, other members are simply there to use you. Something I’ve experienced all too often in real life.
And sharing the same blood does not necessitate you actually liking the other person, or having anything to do with them.
I graded TROS a B after I got back from watching it on Friday night but the more I think about it, the less I like it.
As a fun and entertaining movie, it succeeds. As part of the Star Wars series, it fails. As countless others have pointed out, randomly bringing Palpatine back ruins the end of Return of the Jedi. Not only that, the throne room scene is basically a re-make of the throne room scene in ROTJ. Does JJ have no original ideas? He even had to remake The Wrath of Khan with Star Trek Into Darkness.
I liked the subversiveness of TLJ. I actually liked Rey's parents actually being nobody special because why should everything be tied into one family? Expand the universe a bit. With that said, I think her being a Palpatine would be fine as well if there were hints of it throughout the sequel trilogy, but it feels randomly thrown in.
When I think of the best Star Wars movies, they always make me want to go home and watch another Star Wars right away. This movie left me feeling meh, which is a problem if it's supposed to conclude a classic and beloved story-line. Star Trek: Nemesis, a very imperfect movie, hit me more in the feels than this movie did.
As a fun and entertaining movie, it succeeds. As part of the Star Wars series, it fails. As countless others have pointed out, randomly bringing Palpatine back ruins the end of Return of the Jedi. Not only that, the throne room scene is basically a re-make of the throne room scene in ROTJ. Does JJ have no original ideas? He even had to remake The Wrath of Khan with Star Trek Into Darkness.
I liked the subversiveness of TLJ. I actually liked Rey's parents actually being nobody special because why should everything be tied into one family? Expand the universe a bit. With that said, I think her being a Palpatine would be fine as well if there were hints of it throughout the sequel trilogy, but it feels randomly thrown in.
When I think of the best Star Wars movies, they always make me want to go home and watch another Star Wars right away. This movie left me feeling meh, which is a problem if it's supposed to conclude a classic and beloved story-line. Star Trek: Nemesis, a very imperfect movie, hit me more in the feels than this movie did.
I think because I quickly found myself tuning out with much of Palpatine's, um... scenes, I may have missed that.
Yeah, if they can fire up a ship that's been sitting in the middle of a desert for 18+ years in less than 15 minutes, I have zero issue with Rey getting a water-logged X-Wing up and functioning - although I DO wonder who she flew it sans a R2 Droid unit.
..and that's why the sequel trilogy had no in-universe reason to exist. It was and is still Disney's attempt to milk The Last Penny out of audiences.
Exactly. Some can deny it until the end of time, but Lucas has said that balancing the force included Palpatine (and Vader himself) dying. TROS brushed the entire Vader arc away all to give the sequel trilogy yet another boost (that did not work) to films that did not stand on their own--or at all.
The 11h hour force sensitivity bit only explains a couple of points from TFA, but it was a last minute addition to a marginalized, token of a character. He is to Star Wars what the James Olsen character was to the CW/DC TV series.
Well observed. The point of SW was the Skywalker story. That had a natural beginning, middle and end. Anything else is what the ST was: a transparent money grab and full of questionable motivations on the part of its producers. It was not much more than the ancillary material (e.g., novels & comics) focusing on endless "rogue" types (Han clones), people with rocket-packs and helmets, Darth Fill-in-the Blanks, "the greatest army/evil/weapon/Sith EVER!!" proclamations and of course, a neverending series of lightsabers flashing around.
Because he was marginalized token. He was never meant to be more than that, which was evident in TFA, where they had more than 2 hours to establish or even suggest there was more to his life and perspective on the conflict.
Because to the Disney/Lucasfilm PTB (and some SW fans of equally questionable beliefs), Rey kissing a mass murderer / man who killed his father was more acceptable than Rey exploring any feelings for Finn. Yeah...speaks volumes.
I'm sure this conversation ended several pages ago, and this will be the last time I say anything on the subject, but even the writer of that vader comic has chimed in on this
https://twitter.com/CharlesSoule/status/1209094274152828928
https://twitter.com/CharlesSoule/status/1209094274152828928
Unfortunately, those who enjoyed "The Last Jedi" are no longer considered important to Disney. Disney would prefer to avoid divisiveness and controversy because of the potential brand damage.
Regardless of one's views on TROS, it cannot be denied that "The Rise of Skywalker" was essentially an attempt to 'fix' the controversy of TLJ and right the ship. Having an overarching story plan from the start could have prevented this outcome.
Ultimately, the fallout from TLJ mattered much more to Disney than some fans were willing to acknowledge.
I'm sure this conversation ended several pages ago, and this will be the last time I say anything on the subject, but even the writer of that vader comic has chimed in on this
https://twitter.com/CharlesSoule/status/1209094274152828928
They shit out the comic, then changed their minds.
just adding more plot stuff does not make a story better. Star Trek 2 is the best Trek movie because the narrative is clean... so the themes can be explored.. but the narrative itself (what happens) is not complicated.
It's interesting how one movie can get such polar opposite reactions. This is either a triumphant conclusion that perfectly wraps up the entire saga, or it's a dismal, deeply unsatisfying train wreck of a failure. It either negated and undermined everything from TLJ, or it expanded on the story threads established therein. Resurrecting Palpatine was either the perfect endcap to bring everything full circle and thematically tie all three trilogies together, or it was an absolutely, mind-numbingly idiotic concept (even though the same thing was an accepted part of the beloved Expanded Universe for years, but as soon as Abrams does it, people lose their lunch... but I digress). The use of Carrie Fisher footage is either very tasteful and integrated perfectly into the story, or it's pointlessly shoehorned in and sticks out like a sore thumb. Finn having a mild sensitivity to the Force is either a nice "ah-ha" that added some subtle development to the character, or it was an absolute waste that he had this ability but didn't become a full-blown Jedi himself. Rey's familial relation to Palpatine is also either an "ah-ha" that adds to the character and makes so much sense, or it's contrived garbage.
Ah, fandom.
Kor
Ah, fandom.
Kor
At this point, Disney's narrative of blaming the 'fans' is wearing transparently thin.
It was a calculated corporate move to deflect the blame onto the audience, as opposed to all the internal mismanagement at Lucasfilm.
The fans are largely pleased with "The Mandalorian," so it is possible to make them happy. It just requires the right oversight, creative team and those knowledgeable on the material crafting the final product.
A future creative team with Favreau, Filoni, Feige, and Chow certainly has potential.
Ideas and execution are two different things. I have no issues at all with the idea of Palpatine coming back. I don't even really care that there's not a great explanation for it. I accept "The Dark Side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities, some considered to be unnatural." Cool.
My issue comes in the execution. Sheev is cunning in the prequels. He literally orchestrates the entire thing making the galaxy dance as puppets just for him. When we see him here, he is all "Revenge! Kill the last Jedi!" "No wait, she's my granddaughter! POSSESS the last Jedi and just destroy everybody else with my Force lightning! Mwahahaha!" It was just too much in the way of over-the-top mustache twirling that I felt just didn't work. You have this well-developed character who has been through the ringer and has waited patiently for decades in order to get his revenge. But maybe he just got inpatient and doesn't have time for games looking for his revenge.
That brings up a good question: What in the name of Sheev's melty face did the Sith want revenge for in the first place? Have we ever gotten an answer?
Well I'm not sharing mine and I kind of agree with Scottj85.Can I have what you're smoking?
TLJ =(IMO)
I struggle to pick third place between The Last Jedi, Return of the Jedi and Rogue One, but yeah, Last Jedi.
Hux's death was one of the things that did bother me with the movie. They set up a situation with some interesting potential for the character, but then killed him off almost instantly. When they revealed he was the mole, I was really hoping he'd escape with the others and end up fighting for the Resistance in the big final battle.
They're still going to do movies, they just won't be part of the Skywalker Saga.
As for if this really is the end of the Skywalker Saga, it's pretty clear that the current plan is for this to be the end, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't end up changing the minds a few years from now and doing more.
They've also said that they aren't abandoning the sequel trilogy characters, so it sounds like even if the "Skywalker Saga" is over, the characters involved in it might still pop up in other places.
