Spoilers Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Grading & Discussion

Discussion in 'Star Wars' started by Commander Richard, Dec 13, 2019.

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Grade the movie...

  1. A+

    5.5%
  2. A

    11.0%
  3. A-

    14.6%
  4. B+

    11.0%
  5. B

    13.7%
  6. B-

    6.8%
  7. C+

    8.7%
  8. C

    7.3%
  9. C-

    5.9%
  10. D+

    2.3%
  11. D

    4.1%
  12. D-

    2.7%
  13. F

    6.4%
  1. Campe

    Campe Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Texas
    No Star Wars movie is perfect. I feel the need to get that out of the way at the very beginning. Even the celebrated The Empire Strikes Back, favorite to many a fan, has some pretty glaring ones. But at the end of the day, the idea of a Star Wars movie is to entertain as it takes viewers to a galaxy far, far away. Even Attack of the Clones, the film that, still, even after this release is as low as Star Wars can go for me, has a handful of fun and entertaining moments.

    The Rise of Skywalker is not a perfect film. Not by a long shot. There are many an issue that this film faces from the aspect of a crazy pace, some cheap and some unearned moments and a villain who ultimately doesn't make a lot of sense, is far too over the top and just honestly doesn't work. But, there are a lot of things that I find did work and ultimately, the good does outdo the bad. But not by a whole lot.

    ---

    The worst offense of The Rise of Skywalker is that of Palpatine. Ian McDiarmid’s scenery-chewing, which was one of the better aspects of the prequels, just didn’t work for me here. I don’t think we needed a deep explanation for his return but his appearance to me felt hollow. And his dialogue? Pretty atrocious. The “I am all the Sith”/“And I am all the Jedi” bit, blatantly lifting a much more earned moment from Avengers: Endgame, fell really flat. And I’m not sure what to make of the acolyte crowd. Are these clones? Indentured servants? Willing followers? Not an overly important question the film needed to answer but something I would have liked to know. That sure-to-be-soon-announced Marvel six-part Palpatine comic can't come quick enough! :guffaw:

    There are some serious fakeouts that just don't work. Chewie's supposed death didn't really hold any weight because (1) we knew he had more stuff with Lando; we'd all seen the trailers and (2) we saw him alive before we really had the chance to process it. Although it’s a pleasing moment, having Threepio get his memory back does feel like a bit of a cheat. Particularly after such a fun, emotional and memorable performance from Anthony Daniels in this one to that point. It really lowers the stakes for our heroes if we believe that everyone is going to be okay. Having said that, they did have me on Rey's death. For a second, as Ben held her, I thought that one might stick. But again, he helped her cheat death.

    The movie’s pacing is brutal and relentless and unfortunately that leaves some moments unearned. The movie really could have stood to be three hours or with some tweaking, could have easily become two parts. I honestly would have been okay with an Episode X if it meant fleshing out some of the stuff and in turn make some of these issues become less problematic. Maybe some characters might have even gotten a little something to do. I mean between Rey, Ben/Kylo, Finn, Poe, Ghost Luke, Leia, Lando, Chewbacca, Threepio, Artoo, BB-8, D-O, Rose, Jannah, Zori Bliss, Maz, Hux, Pryde and Palpatine, that's 19 characters! And they killed off Hux relatively quickly and really short-changed both Rose and Maz. And still, unless the name is Rey or Kylo, I don't know that I have a lot of understanding of character motivations here.

    ---

    That’s not to say that there aren’t a lot of positives. Chewie has always been my favorite character and he had some really incredible moments in this one. His breakdown at Leia’s passing elicited some sniffles from the crowd. And I admittedly may have been one of those. As did Maz (who was a fascinating character who was fairly wasted in this in entire trilogy) giving our favorite Wookiee his long-deserved medal.

    I really liked the big three here. I wish we would have gotten all of them working together more throughout the trilogy. It was fun to see the fights and grudging respect between Rey and Poe, particularly after only meeting in the closing moments of The Last Jedi. And Finn and Poe’s friendship and partnership really shines through again and I enjoyed what we got of them.

    And I have to say, while I am not necessarily Team Reylo, their chemistry really was the driving force for the entire film. Everything else is a backdrop. And it worked. While I was a little confused by the kiss and the reaction after Rey came back to life, I have to say that I think Driver and Ridley have great chemistry and their storyline was fairly compelling. Although I think the romantic underpinnings were unnecessary, the work they've done across this trilogy has been stellar. And while I am sad to see the death of Ben Solo and the end of the Skywalker line, it was handled fairly well.

    As for Leia... I think with what they had to work with, it was fairly well done. Some of the deleted scenes from The Force Awakens contains the dialogue utilized here and the costume change they made is pretty impressive. But, the dialogue is a little out of place. It works, but maybe not as well as it could. But, with the limited material that was available, I give them props for trying. My question is, is the appearance of Han(!!!) supposed to be Leia Force projecting? Or is it simply a memory that Ben is having? Regardless, the spin on their scene from The Force Awakens was pretty heartbreaking. "Dad--?" "I know." SLAYS me!

    And of course, there are the themes, several of which are Star Wars evergreens. The message of hope, that, as Poe puts it "good people will fight if we lead them," comes to finally prove true. And that family is oftentimes even stronger than blood. Now, I didn't necessarily love the Rey Palpatine stuff but that she rejected it in the end realizing that while blood may be thicker than water, friendship and love is thicker than blood.

    ---

    So, no, The Rise of Skywalker isn't a perfect finale to the Skywalker Saga. But it has its moments for sure. For me, it's a little bit better than average, and I'd rate it as a B-. I need to let it sit to find my exact placement on the Saga films, but I think its something like this with 4-6 being a little fluid at the moment:

    1. ANH
    2. TLJ
    3. TESB
    4. TFA
    5. TRoS
    6. ROTJ
    7. TPM
    8. ROTS
    9. AOTC
     
  2. Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Flying Spaghetti Western
    my ranking:
    1. Star Wars (1977)
    2. Empire Strikes Back
    3. Return of the jedi
    4. Rogue One
    5. Solo
    6. Revenge of the Sith
    7. Attack of the Clones
    8. Rise of Skywalker
    9. Phantom Menace
    10. The last Jedi
     
  3. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 26, 2001
    Location:
    Ireland
    Haven’t you seen The Force Awakens? :)
     
  4. Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
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    my revised ranking: .. thank you Captaindemootion
    1. Star Wars (1977)
    2. Empire Strikes Back
    3. Return of the jedi
    4. Rogue One
    5. Solo
    6. Revenge of the Sith
    7. Attack of the Clones
    8. Rise of Skywalker
    9. The Force Awakens
    10. Phantom Menace
    11. The last Jedi

    I think the Lando scenes really helped push the film up above TFA for me. It's as good a way to use a Legacy character.
     
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  5. Mach5

    Mach5 Admiral Admiral

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    Location:
    Manbaby
    1. ESB
    2. No movie in existence
    3. ANH
    4. ROTJ
    5. ROTS
    6. TLJ
    7. TPM
    8. TFA
    9. AOTC
    10. TROS

    Though on purely sentimental grounds i prefer AOTC to both TFA and TLJ (even though it's objectively an inferior movie).
     
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  6. Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    was expecting the one of the good guys to have a "compass that doesn't point north."

    "...and then, they made me their chief.."
     
  7. Aragorn

    Aragorn Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    It's fanboy hyperbole where if it's not the greatest thing ever, it's therefore the worst thing ever. Any Star Wars movie that isn't the greatest thing ever is therefore put in the pile with Paul Blart: Mall Cop 2, Showgirls and Gotti.

    I enjoyed the movie. Didn't think it was great, but didn't think it was average either. For how long the movie was, they sure blew through a ton of plot at lightspeed. For bringing back the Emperor, they sure didn't do much with him. Not even an explanation other than one minor character making some guesses.
     
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  8. KennyB

    KennyB I have spoken............ Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2001
    Location:
    Tokyo Japan
    I actually score AOTC above TPM.......it's only redeeming quality is Maul and the duel. Jake Lloyd, bless his heart.........and George just spent WAY too much time on podracing.
     
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  9. Campe

    Campe Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2001
    Location:
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    I agree on pod racing but gotta say, at least TPM was a coherent plot, even if the dialogue was pretty craptastic. Seventeen years later and I’m still confused as to why so many plot threads were left dangling.
     
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  10. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    The Phantom Menace was one script re-write and a better director away from being a classic.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2019
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  11. Mach5

    Mach5 Admiral Admiral

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    AOTC dropped the ball on so many fronts, but there's one scene that was so disappointing to me... Remember when Obi-Wan sees the clone army for the first time on Kamino? I listened to the soundtrack before actually seeing the film, and that track absolutely blew me away (the buildup was incredible)... And I imagined the scene in my head... Some fancy camera work, a zoom-out revealing something grandiose... And the final product ends up being a static shot of Obi Wan standing on a balcony and a cut to another static shot of clones marching... An epic orchestral buildup not followed by the visuals... So anti-climactic.

    The reason why I even bring this up is that I caught AOTC on TV the other day and ended up watching a fairly big portion of it.
     
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  12. HugeLobes

    HugeLobes Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    1. ESB/ANH (yes, there's no such thing as a 'perfect movie', but I still think these two come as close as any films could).
    2. ROTJ

    And ... then I'm stuck. Did I find TFA the most enjoyable? Yes, but I also found it insanely derivative and shallow, with Rey being the only slither of goodness; it was JJ taking the path of least resistance to make something that was never going to be great, and I kind of think that's the worst kind of movie. It's why Man of Steel ranks as my least favorite instead of something like Howard the Duck.

    I thought TLJ was pretty poor and much harder to watch than a movie like ROTS or AOTC, but it didn't have that atrocious prequel dialogue and characterisation, and at least tried very hard to do something new instead of filling itself with over the top action sequences. TROS was sort of the worst of them all, but then it was just kinda middling awful throughout without any one huge glaring problem. TPM had lots of good ideas hiding under a truly terrible script.

    I just don't know how to rank these movies. It's like they've collectively covered every kind of bad.
     
  13. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2011
    Location:
    The Black Country, England
    Oh, we're doing that are we ?

    1. Star Wars
    2. The Empire Strikes Back
    3. The Return of the Jedi
    4. The Last Jedi
    5. Rogue One
    6. The Revenge of the Sith
    7. Solo
    8. The Rise of Skywalker
    9. The Phantom Menace
    10. The Force Awakens
    11. The Attack of the Clones
     
  14. Kor

    Kor Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Location:
    My mansion on Qo'noS
    1. ANH
    2. And the rest.

    The first one was a superb standalone space adventure. There really never needed to be any more.

    Kor
     
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  15. HugeLobes

    HugeLobes Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Never needed to be, but Empire was a fantastic continuation. It was amazing they even got one sequel right.
     
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  16. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly.
     
  17. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Location:
    Arizona, USA
    I really enjoyed TROS, it wasn't absolutely amazing, but I liked it.
    I actually like the whole Rey Palpatine reveal, and I think making her a Palpatine who turns her back on her grandfather to become a Jedi is even better than just being a nobody who discovers her powers. I think the reveal in TLJ was vague enough that it isn't contradicted.
    I think all of the characters got a lot of good scenes, and plenty to do. Now I really want a novel or comic that explores her parents story.
    It was especially nice to finally see Rey, Finn and Poe working together for a good portion of the movie. I was really impressed with how well the managed to work the Leia footage into the movie, although I couldn't help but noticed they most of her responses to people were fairly generic.
    I really liked Zori Bliss, and her history with Poe gave us some nice backstory for him. I was really shocked we didn't see her face, I figured with her being played by someone as recognizable as Keri Russel, we'd see her face at least once. Babu Frick didn't do a lot, but he was a cute design, and he did get a few amusing moment. Jannah was OK, her connection to Finn was kinda nice.
    Leia sacrificing herself to bring Ben back to the light was a nice way to end her story. Rey and Ben definitely got the most interesting stuff to do in this one, and I was pretty happy with how both of their stories ended. I wasn't sure if they could redeem Ben, but thought they actually made it work. Palpatine was pretty good here, definitely very creepy. I was a little surprised they didn't go a bit more in depth on how he came back, but I thought we got enough for it to work. I really liked the big confrontation between him and Rey.
    This had some of my favorite action scenes in the whole series, the big chase on Pasana, or however you spell it, and I loved the big Rey/Kylo fight on the wreckage of the Death Star. It wasn't as showy as the big twirly fights in the prequels, but it felt real, like they really were trying to hit and kill each other.
    After everything that she went through and everything that Ben, Leia, and Luke did for Rey, I was pretty happy with her taking on the Skywalker name and continuing their legacy.
    I was a little surprised by the hints that Finn had Force powers. So does that mean he'll be Rey's student?
     
  18. Campe

    Campe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The score for Empire is absolutely magnificent and the only thing I’d miss. Don’t mistake me. I like the movie. But I don’t need it.
     
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  19. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Jul 24, 2011
    Just came back from the movie. I liked it. Not sure where I rank it, I’m going to wait until it hits home release and I watch it again.

    Two gripes
    Wedge’s cameo was way too short. And the first half of the movie felt very rushed, it needed to be longer, everything was zipping everywhere.

    Also I think I spotted John Williams, he was right outside Babu’s shop.
     
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  20. HugeLobes

    HugeLobes Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Mar 28, 2018
    What's with this whole 'needing' idea? You could say there was scope for a 2nd movie, but certainly nobody needed it. Nobody needed the first one either, but it ended up being a huge gamble that turned into an incredible movie. I think the same is true of Empire. Following up Star Wars shouldn't have worked, but somehow it did. And, while I don't think Empire is better than ANH, I do think it's the one that created what Star Wars became more than its predecessor and took it from amazing space adventure to something more.

    Making another nine was maybe pushing it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2019
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