Spoilers Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Grading & Discussion

So? Must every fairy tale trope be checked off?

Yes, Lucas did intend for shades of gray, with a good guy becoming bad and the bad guy actually having a point.

Fair enough. I misread it.

The PT, especially TPM and AOTC, diverts far more than you give it credit for, but we are no so far removed from its novelty to not appreciate it.

She did value it above all else until Anakin came along. It didn't feel natural. It felt forced.

And yet, it doesn't feel like it in the text.

That argument proceeds from false assumption and concludes in error.

And that's a load of garbage. People ship all characters, from Frodo/Thorin, to Princess Peach and Master Chief. It's not "buried." It's barely registered and we haven't seen the conclusion of the film! Yet, the assumptions abound...absurd.

Also, why can't they just be friends? Why most Rey be in a romance? Why must any of them?

THANK YOU!

 

I could live with that. I mean, considering what tends to happen to the female characters in Hans Christian Andersen’s fairy tales?

Feet hacked off with an axe. Rape. Literally being dragged to hell. Freezing to death. Set on fire. Suicide. Eternal damnation... Old Hans wasn’t exactly big on the romance and earthly happy-ever-afters.

(The only real exceptions I can think of are Gerda, The Princess and the Pea, and the nameless princess in The Tinder Box. The first one’s ‘romance’ is debatable. The second has the woman literally ‘earning’ a prince through endless complaining, and being the only other royalty on the continent. The third is kidnapped by a serial killer, who weds her after murdering her family and usurping their throne.)

Seeing all that shit in Star Wars would certainly be interesting. And that’s not touching on the Bros Grimm!

 

This.

 

She never stopped to wonder if Kylo Ren was setting a trap or anything similar . . . considering that he had attempted to violate her mind just a FEW DAYS EARLIER in order to discover Luke's whereabouts? Rey must have been incredibly stupid.

If Finn and Rose were able to slip away from Leia's command ship undetected by the Resistance or the First Order on a transport ship, why couldn't the surviving members of the Resistance have done the same in small groups . . . EARLIER IN THE FILM?

 

And Luke tried to save the guy who cut off his hand and enslaved most of the galaxy.

Luke must be incredibly stupid.

Larger ships-larger signatures. Poe had to run interference for the Resistance not to detect it.

 

I don't understand why Rey & Finn have to be a romance? Is it really so inconceivable for a young man and woman to just be friends?

 

Rey and Finn? Wasn't Rose introduced/inserted to give Finn a love interest? As clumsy as that was executed.

No. I think they'll be hooking up Poe and Rey for sure!

 

https://twitter.com/botnikstudios/status/942911487244406786

Here we have some autogenerated TLJ reviews.

 

Same here. This is all wrapped up in racist, mythological trope, Star Wars has always done this, nonsense.

Stories evolve and change. The idea that every female in a story must, MUST, be hitched by the end of the tale is a trope that needs to change. Period. Because, a person shouldn't be defined by their romantic interest in a story. They should be on a journey of their own, and that includes Finn, Poe, Rey, Rose and Kylo. If that journey includes romance? That's fine. But, these characters are still finding their place in the galaxy, Rey and Finn especially. It's rather poor psychology to insist that they must get together when they are still finding themselves.

 

Ok... So maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree here, bringing up TPT, but isn't it established that Jedi are not to fall in love and get married and have families? Isn't that why Anakin and Padme had to hide their romance? And then what happened bore out exactly WHY Jedi should never do that.. Their feelings and emotions outweigh the force. Anakin's love for Padme was the straw that broke the bantha's back and ushered in his transition to the Dark Side.

I know that in the EU, Luke gets married to someone and has kids and such, but not in this universe... Ok, so out with the old and in with the new, when it comes to the Jedi and Rey will be able to craft things how she sees them and how she interprets the texts... But still... I don't think there will be any shipping involving Rey.. Nor does there need to be.

 

Yes, Jedi romances almost always cause disasters.

but....what does it matter if people "ship" different characters?? These aren't real people we're talking about. They exist in imaginations to begin with. No conversation here is going to influence what happens in future films.

 

I can see why you feel that way, considering that the only three potential mates for Rey is a guy played by a black actor, another guy played by a Latino actor, and the white guy who almost tried to mind rape her.

Would you feel this way if Finn had been portrayed by a white actor?

Why not question the idea of Leia becoming romantically involved with someone? Oh right. Han was played by a white actor.

If that's the case, then NO ONE in the entire Star Wars saga should not have been emotionally involved with someone. Or . . . they should have been emotionally involved with blood relatives or a religious organization.

 

You are assuming from error.

For the record, the romance between Han and Leia is the part I skip while watching TESB. I would rather it not be a part of the saga...period.

There is a difference between romance and emotional involvement. Study Plato.


Oh, and Star Wars had incest. It was fun:

 

Those aren’t the only possible love interests for Rey. Putting aside the obvious and oblivious heteronormativity for a moment, everything to do with Rey is fictional. There is no ‘only’.

With one stroke of a pen(keyboard), she could be revealed to have an entire Gungan harem that have been hanging off screen the entire time. She might meet up with Benicio del Toro for a quickie and an ass-kicking. She could end the series by marrying the surprisingly alive Captain Typho. Etcetcetc...

And, oh god, ‘potential mates.’ That sure makes the possibility of any romance/sexual relationships look appealing. And it certainly doesn’t imply any views about women and sexual relationships. Noooo.

(Also: taking a word primarily ascribed to beasts and applying it to a list of mostly non-Caucasian men, could also be considered somewhat of an...unfortunate cliche. Considering you seem to want to discuss implied racism, the ‘hidden’ motivations of other posters, and all.)

 

Not explicitly, I don't think. So far as I understand it, it's only personal attachments and possession that are forbidden. Indeed, Anakin & Padme have exactly this discussion in AotC. The basic idea is not to prohibit love so much as to prohibit playing favourites. To be a Jedi is to serve life, with equal love and compassion for all, not just the people that they happen to like.

Of course if any Jedi doesn't like this, they're free to leave the Order anytime they wish and go live whatever kind of life they want for themselves; they're not forced to do, or in this case *not* do anything against their will.

 

That reads pretty much like angry fan reviews of everything

 

Is it like writing an essay on a subject and you want to use all the buzz words to impress the teacher?

 

In the end, they will go for a love story. We all know this. And, in the end, they will go with the one guy (or girl) with whom Rey/Daisy Ridley has the most chemistry on screen. ROMANTIC CHEMISTRY.

For now, the only one she has that with is Kylo Ren/Adam Driver.

I really like John Boyega. He's a fantastic find, and he and Daisy Ridley have a very natural, easy and fun flavor between them, but Finn has pretty much been friend-zoned, and Poe... Poe is yet to be written into a chemistry-laden interaction. Yes, chemistry can be written and directed and edited other than whatever chemical stuff happens between two actors on camera.

I don't have a problem with Rey being in a romance as long as the character is strong, and viable in terms of her own agency. I also don't care if the romance is with another character who is the villain and did villainish things to her in the story. That's never stopped the classics from putting two characters together in a very viable and watchable/readable romance. I don't do politically correct narratives and romances anyway. If they can WRITE and ACT the romantic tension well and resolve it well with an interesting end (and that CAN and MIGHT mean that Kylo Ren is redeemed AND dies), I'm all good. Adam Driver and Daisy Ridley have off-the-charts chemistry on screen... so that's pretty doable.

What I don't want is a generic romance for the sake of having Rey in a romantic relationship. THAT is a problem with me. Poe fits that generic romance angle. So, no, I'm not interested in a Rey/Poe romance. Even written well, it'll be boring as hell.

 

Rey and Finn have that potential.

The problem is, as Rey is currently at in her journey (and largely Finn too) they are both finding their identity. They are midway through that process. I feel it is unnecessary for her, Kylo, or Finn to be in a relationship when their journey is one of self-discovery, purpose and meaning.