Spoilers Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Grading & Discussion

No. No one "conquered Vader and the Emperor"
Vader converted - he wasn't conquered.
Vader killed the Emperor.


Vader's conversion was not seen as a possibility by anyone except Luke.
Yoda was correct only a fully trained Jedi could have the chance of defeating(conquering) both....Luke had no chance.
However, Vader turned, at the last possible second and his attack on the Emperor killed both of them.
So, events Yoda could not forsee unfolded in a way he could not predict. But that doesn't make him wrong.

 

I mean in terms that Obi-Wan "certain point of view" Kenobi might use.

If Vader can betray on murder Anakin from a certain point of view, then Anakin can conquer Vader from a certain point of view too.

I posted this somewhere on the board recently: if "Jedi" is read as singular, then the title "Return of the Jedi" could be read as a reference to Anakin's return.

 

Metaphysically speaking at least, that's pretty much exactly what happened.

 

Man Bun Luke!


I kind of love the look they ended up going with instead of this.

https://twitter.com/PhilSzostak/status/1065290694930063360
Interesting, the discussion therein is suggesting the The Last Jedi's take on Luke was within George Lucas's vision of the ST:

1. Adam!‏Verified account @AdamLanceGarcia Nov 21
   Replying to @PhilSzostak
   So, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like Luke in The Last Jedi was fairly consistent with, or at least inspired by Lucas's vision?
   
   2 replies18 retweets162 likes
   
2. 
   Phil Szostak‏ @PhilSzostak Nov 21
   I would say so, yes. I worked on TFA from pretty much the very beginning and was present at the January 16, 2013 meeting at Skywalker Ranch with George Lucas that Christian mentions here (and that is described in greater detail in The Art of The Last Jedi).
   
   4 replies27 retweets228 likes
   

 

Knowing that Lucas himself directly influenced Luke's arc in the ST makes me extremely happy because it helps lessen the issues I had with TFA and what I'd believed was the total abandonment of the ideas he'd bequeathed to Kathleen Kennedy and her team.

 

Same here.

 

I also found out, via listening to an episode of the Full of Sith podcast, that Rey's character was based, in broad strokes, on Lucas' ideas as well, so this was a 'double whammy' for me.

I also had my viewpoint on TFA partially altered when one of the co-hosts of Full of Sith pointed out - in a Salt Lake FanX Comic Convention panel - that there were thematic and myth-based elements present in the film that I hadn't picked up on, which, as somebody who loves Star Wars because of its thematic repetition and mythological underpinnings, made me rather pleased.

 

I'll need to listen to this one. I enjoyed Sam Witwer's commentary about TFA and what was present in the subtext of that film.

 

^ FYI: The FoS podcast episode I mentioned is actually audio from a Salt Lake FanX Comic Convention panel focused on Ahsoka Tano (the FoS episode title is "Special Release: The Life and Times of Ahsoka Tano").

 

I have to admit, I am pleasantly surprised to hear at some parts of sequel trilogy were inspired by Lucas's ideas. I assumed they'd abandoned all of his ideas to do their own thing.

 

The art of books go into it quite a bit.

Rey came from Lucas wanting a female lead Jedi. Luke being in exile on an island, and the idea of Luke reluctantly training her came from story meetings with Lucas.

The original versions of the trilogy had Rey running from Jakku and training with Luke in the very first movie, it was JJ that changed all that when he came on. I believe Starkiller base was also JJ’s idea.

This thread over on TFN covers some of this
https://boards.theforce.net/threads/the-development-of-the-sequel-trilogy.50046418/

 

Here's some more notes regarding the art of books found on this reddit post. I know I'm cherry picking but there are a lot:

- Luke Exile was all about his Guilt over Kylo Ren/Ben and his failure, his last night encounter with Ben and Luke felt that as long as the Sith and Jedi exist you will always have a Darth Vader or Emperor so he wanted Sith and Jedi to die, as in their religion die out and he thought this would happen by his exile and becoming a hermit. This was directly from Johnson himself. So for me, Luke's exile made sense due to experience with trauma and depression but a lot of people say how Luke would never pull a sabre on Kylo/Ben but Johnson point was that very act was also a core part of his exiling.

- The Story Group, Dave Filoni, Brain Trusts of Lucasfilms, JJ Abrams all knew what Rian Johnson was doing with the story. Rian Johnson script was least edited out of all the Star Wars scripts with only different drafts with tweaks but the story and what he was doing with the story never changed because all parties and organs of Lucasfilms supported it. So Dave Filoni knew what was going on as did Hidalgo and Story group.

- Rian Johnson had personal meeting with Rick Carter Co-Production along with lead artists for the TLJ who went through every aspect of his story, every aspect of the art and then Rian Johnson and other lead artists for TLJ went through with Pablo Hidalgo and Story Group the Star Wars library and complete archive, every decision Rian Johnson made with the story in TLJ went through EVERY part of the Lucasfilm inner circle and he read lots of the Lore and archives on the lore and artwork books, went through it all for ideas for his story. Because Lucasfilm essentially had a massive library and vault/archive of all things Star Wars. SO LET THIS BE CLEARLY STATED TLJ was not just his project, he DID not drive everything. So the people that say Rian Johnson Killed Star Wars are incorrectly attributing a multiple person process to one man.

More can be found here.

 

The TLJ script is available for viewing, some people have written down notes about what they saw (stage direction and stuff like that)

Twitter thread:
https://twitter.com/Leviosalfc/status/1070033641751896071

And some more stuff
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLe...0df4d112e1&utm_source=embedly&utm_term=a33zye

 

They weren’t the only ones. Colin Trevorrow was initially all over Twitter, gibbering about how he worked with Johnson to make some changes to TLJ’s ending. Trevorrow had wanted it adjusted from what Johnson originally intended, so Trevorrow could set up his story. Similar to how Johnson himself had worked with Abrams.

Johnson agreed, they got their heads together, made the changes, and Trevorrow had just about fallen over himself to brag and gush praise.

Which made it pretty funny post firing, when a now very salty Trevorrow was claiming he’d been shocked and horrified by TLJ, totally had no idea what was gonna happen, and would have undone everything in his movie. So could the angry fanboys start bugging Disney to hire him back, please?

(I have a theory that Trevorrow wanted Rey to be a full Jedi in the next one, and the big change made was showing that she’s stolen the texts. Because whilst it not exactly counter to the themes of TLJ, that reveal somewhat undermines Yodas big moment, and has no real purpose other than sequel baiting that exact plot.)

 

That's the first I heard about Trevorrow's turn around after he got fired. It always kind of cracks me up when you see that kind of thing, when they're working on it it's amazing, and the best thing they ever worked on, and then they get fired and it's suddenly a pile of shit they're glad they aren't associated with anymore.