Star Wars Rebels Season Two (spoilers)
- Thread starter CorporalCaptain
- Start date
I'm glad someone finally came in and made that point. Yeesh.
"When 84 years you reach, sound as good you will not."
True enough. Question is: could it be fixed electronically in post?
As for what Ahsoka knows and why she didn't before, according to the bits and pieces I've been able to string together, basically she disappeared for a good while after leaving the Order. During that time, she sought out old places of Jedi power and lore that were either ignored or otherwise lost to them before and during the Clone Wars. By the time she resurfaces, the Dark Times are in full force.
As for why Bail didn't fill her in, it's implied he doesn't know (Yoda and Obi-Wan never told him that Anakin lived).
Vader sensed Ahsoka and immediately knew it was her. It seemed to me that the two were telepathically linked at that moment, just like Luke and Leia in TESB, only this was so intense and shocking, that it completely overwhelmed Ahsoka, making her faint. Judging from her facial expression, she undoubtedly sensed SOMETHING of personal significance.
Yeah, Vader seems to have buried Anakin really deep (despite Darth Vader comics suggesting otherwise), but I think there's still enough of him left for his former Padawan to pick up. In the end, Ahsoka didn't lie. She just wasn't certain.
But she sure as hell didn't seem oblivious.
This is his third appearance in Rebels, after the extended cut of the series premiere and a brief appearance in the first-season finale. Also, I think he's been in a few comic-book stories since the new "everything is canon" continuity got started.
I'm glad someone finally came in and made that point. Yeesh.
"When 84 years you reach, sound as good you will not."
True enough. Question is: could it be fixed electronically in post?
Jones's voice is already electronically processed as Vader. Further processing could alter its pitch and timbre, or adjust its speed, but changing the actor's actual delivery? That's not something you can do by adjusting a few sliders on a mixing board. That would be something that came down to the voice director guiding the actor to deliver the lines in a different way, and to the director and editor choosing the best takes, or cutting together the best bits from different takes.
"The Siege of Lothal":
First, the positives.
The use of Minister Tua was outstanding, and very believable. To the question of whether Vader planned for her defection, I think that the answer is most likely 'yes.' I think that part of the subtext of Vader's telling Tua that something must be done to draw the Rebels back to Lothal was that giving Tua the impression that her life was in danger was just that very something.
The idea that the Emperor has a secret reason for ordering the Empire to Lothal, in addition to the factory, is very intriguing.
I noticed that the facial expressions on the characters seem very specific and lifelike, so very good work there.
I liked the disagreement and squabbling among the Ghost crew. No one of the team is perfect, although Hera is perhaps the most perfect and ideal of the group. She seems to have an almost maternal role to play. She beamed when Ezra said that helping people, even Tua, was what they do.
I also like how the team got in over their heads, although I have to say that depending on the use of Tua's shuttle was obviously bad planning. Seat of their pants almost didn't work, and if they learn anything from the events of this episode, one of the things should be that they need to come up with better plans. At the same time, the Rebel fleet just lost its capital ship. So the thing the team could benefit from the most, better integration with the Rebel forces, has been set back. Interesting dynamic. At least it looks like Ahsoka may be on board the Ghost now.
Ezra's home getting destroyed was a good beat to include. The Imperials were actually trying to track them down.
Vader's TIE maneuvers were pretty neat. Again, it was interesting that Commander Sato underestimated the single fighter, another instance of getting outmatched and in over their heads. We knew that Vader's TIE could spin out of control, but showing Vader exploiting that instability for fire evasion was a nice touch. It meshes pretty well with the original film I think, because no one really got on Vader's tail at Yavin 4.
On the question of whether Ahsoka knows who Vader is, I gotta believe that she at least suspects. She may not be certain, though. One thing I've been mulling over from "Rebel Resolve," who was Hera referring to when she said that Jedi die at Mustafar: was it Jedi generally, anybody in particular besides Anakin, or just Anakin? We don't actually know what is generally known about Anakin's fate. Is it believed that he was killed on Mustafar, as just another one of the Jedi who supposedly tried to seize power? In particular, does Ahsoka believe that Anakin died on Mustafar? If so, then that belief may be clouding her feelings, and creating doubt that the Sith Lord really is Anakin. I'd like to learn what's generally known about Anakin's fate.
Now on to some problems I had.
In the opening space battle, Phoenix squadron jumped to hyperspace too soon. A professional fighter pilot would have covered the Phantom's docking with the Ghost. Sabine was very vulnerable there.
I'm getting sick of the homage dialog, such as:
"cut across their axis"
"open up in there"
"we're in trouble"
"coming in too fast"
"remember your training"
Ugh.
I'm also getting tired of story beats that seem to be lifted from the OT: a ship is allowed to escape but it's being tracked; sensing Vader's presence while getting clearance flying past Star Destroyers. It's repetitious. Notice that Vader called off fighter pursuit of the shuttle when it launched from Lothal. He let it escape, just like in the original film (in that case, there was only minimal fighter resistance, but they weren't in just a shuttle then either). And I agree that Vader wasn't intending to behead Ezra. He wanted them all alive.
All in all, off to a good start.
First, the positives.
The use of Minister Tua was outstanding, and very believable. To the question of whether Vader planned for her defection, I think that the answer is most likely 'yes.' I think that part of the subtext of Vader's telling Tua that something must be done to draw the Rebels back to Lothal was that giving Tua the impression that her life was in danger was just that very something.
The idea that the Emperor has a secret reason for ordering the Empire to Lothal, in addition to the factory, is very intriguing.
I noticed that the facial expressions on the characters seem very specific and lifelike, so very good work there.
I liked the disagreement and squabbling among the Ghost crew. No one of the team is perfect, although Hera is perhaps the most perfect and ideal of the group. She seems to have an almost maternal role to play. She beamed when Ezra said that helping people, even Tua, was what they do.
I also like how the team got in over their heads, although I have to say that depending on the use of Tua's shuttle was obviously bad planning. Seat of their pants almost didn't work, and if they learn anything from the events of this episode, one of the things should be that they need to come up with better plans. At the same time, the Rebel fleet just lost its capital ship. So the thing the team could benefit from the most, better integration with the Rebel forces, has been set back. Interesting dynamic. At least it looks like Ahsoka may be on board the Ghost now.
Ezra's home getting destroyed was a good beat to include. The Imperials were actually trying to track them down.
Vader's TIE maneuvers were pretty neat. Again, it was interesting that Commander Sato underestimated the single fighter, another instance of getting outmatched and in over their heads. We knew that Vader's TIE could spin out of control, but showing Vader exploiting that instability for fire evasion was a nice touch. It meshes pretty well with the original film I think, because no one really got on Vader's tail at Yavin 4.
On the question of whether Ahsoka knows who Vader is, I gotta believe that she at least suspects. She may not be certain, though. One thing I've been mulling over from "Rebel Resolve," who was Hera referring to when she said that Jedi die at Mustafar: was it Jedi generally, anybody in particular besides Anakin, or just Anakin? We don't actually know what is generally known about Anakin's fate. Is it believed that he was killed on Mustafar, as just another one of the Jedi who supposedly tried to seize power? In particular, does Ahsoka believe that Anakin died on Mustafar? If so, then that belief may be clouding her feelings, and creating doubt that the Sith Lord really is Anakin. I'd like to learn what's generally known about Anakin's fate.
Now on to some problems I had.
In the opening space battle, Phoenix squadron jumped to hyperspace too soon. A professional fighter pilot would have covered the Phantom's docking with the Ghost. Sabine was very vulnerable there.
I'm getting sick of the homage dialog, such as:
"cut across their axis"
"open up in there"
"we're in trouble"
"coming in too fast"
"remember your training"
Ugh.
I'm also getting tired of story beats that seem to be lifted from the OT: a ship is allowed to escape but it's being tracked; sensing Vader's presence while getting clearance flying past Star Destroyers. It's repetitious. Notice that Vader called off fighter pursuit of the shuttle when it launched from Lothal. He let it escape, just like in the original film (in that case, there was only minimal fighter resistance, but they weren't in just a shuttle then either). And I agree that Vader wasn't intending to behead Ezra. He wanted them all alive.
All in all, off to a good start.
Agreed. He played her like a (insert name of some musical instrument from the Star Wars universe). I liked it that, even though Ezra and Kanan could sense her honesty, it was still a trap, because she didn't know she was the bait. And then, of course, Vader killed her after all to make it look like the rebels had done it. This was some high-grade evil planning, and it does a good job of establishing Vader as a serious threat.
Didn't she actually lampshade that herself, saying something about mom and dad and the kids?
Although it is a little derivative of Luke's story and the fate of Owen and Beru.
And it fits into what we know about Anakin having been a hotshot pilot. He may not think of himself as Anakin anymore, but he still has the skills.
I'm not so sure. He wanted some of them alive to lead him back to the rebels, but I don't think his plan required them all to survive. He was probably going easy on them to let them escape, but I don't think he would've been upset if one or two of them hadn't made it.
Ah, yes. Quite so.
I agree, it is.
In addition, the destruction of Tarkintown by state terrorism, with Ezra riding off towards the smoke plume, seemed lifted from the beat of Luke returning to the Lars homestead to see Owen and Beru murdered, also by (as I see it) state terrorism.
And the overall effect is the same, pushing the characters towards joining the Rebel Forces at large, although, in the case of Rebels, it's more like cutting down the option of going back to their previous base of operations.
RE: Mustafar. Hera mentions that Kanan told her it's where Jedi go to die and since it's unlikely that Kanan would have ever been in a position to know what went down between Skywalker and Kenobi.
Indeed, given that we saw in an episode of TCW that Sidious had a facility on Mustafar where he held those potential younglings, it seems more likely that this is where Palpatine kept all the stray padawans and surviving younglings he was able to round up after Order 66 (aka: possible future Inquisitors.) As Kanan was one (the only one?) to avoid capture, it's not too much of a leap to guess he'd heard of it.
I also doubt Ahsoka knows of Mustafar's significance to her old master. Again, we don't yet know what (if any) official story accounts for the disappearance/death of Anakin Skywalker. If I had to guess, I'd say it would either be "died defending Palpatine from Windu's assassination attempt" or simply killed in the temple purge. Honestly though I suspect the Empire heavily suppresses any knowledge regarding the Jedi, so the whole thing (possibly including the name "Anakin Skywalker") may have been erased from history.
That's my guess. We know there's an old satellite Jedi temple there built over what looks like natural crystal caves, so we know they're present on Lothal. I wouldn't be surprised if Palpatine has gone through the Jedi archives looking for similar sites. Which means Ilum is probably already in the process of being strip mined.
Indeed, given that we saw in an episode of TCW that Sidious had a facility on Mustafar where he held those potential younglings, it seems more likely that this is where Palpatine kept all the stray padawans and surviving younglings he was able to round up after Order 66 (aka: possible future Inquisitors.) As Kanan was one (the only one?) to avoid capture, it's not too much of a leap to guess he'd heard of it.
I also doubt Ahsoka knows of Mustafar's significance to her old master. Again, we don't yet know what (if any) official story accounts for the disappearance/death of Anakin Skywalker. If I had to guess, I'd say it would either be "died defending Palpatine from Windu's assassination attempt" or simply killed in the temple purge. Honestly though I suspect the Empire heavily suppresses any knowledge regarding the Jedi, so the whole thing (possibly including the name "Anakin Skywalker") may have been erased from history.
That's my guess. We know there's an old satellite Jedi temple there built over what looks like natural crystal caves, so we know they're present on Lothal. I wouldn't be surprised if Palpatine has gone through the Jedi archives looking for similar sites. Which means Ilum is probably already in the process of being strip mined.
The spinning evasion move also fits as an evolution of the spinning tricks ("trick" was his own word as a child) that Anakin did in the TPM and ROTS space battles.
Perhaps, but it's a little contrary to what we've seen in general space combat in Star Wars - they are basically airplanes in space. This allows us to see great swoops and dives and banks as we would if they were the Hellcats and Mustangs and Fw-190s and Zeroes (and probably Mosquitoes) that inspired George Lucas in various WWII movies.
This creates a bit of a schism in that if it's physically possible to whip around and point your nose at whatever's following you, shouldn't ANYONE be able to do it, or at least have the technology be able to fundamentally support that sort of maneuver? I understand that they are basically showing off Vader's mad skillz at the stick of an Advanced TIE fighter, but at the same time if space combat would allow the more Babylon 5-esque maneuvering, you'd think that all fighter (and warship) combat could support that.
Mark
This creates a bit of a schism in that if it's physically possible to whip around and point your nose at whatever's following you, shouldn't ANYONE be able to do it, or at least have the technology be able to fundamentally support that sort of maneuver? I understand that they are basically showing off Vader's mad skillz at the stick of an Advanced TIE fighter, but at the same time if space combat would allow the more Babylon 5-esque maneuvering, you'd think that all fighter (and warship) combat could support that.
Mark
^ Yeah, I raised my eyebrows at Vader flying backwards (both literally and figuratively). I wasn't counting that maneuver with the evasive spinning maneuvers I was discussing. I think the flying backwards bit is a whole separate animal. I'm not sure I liked the flying backwards bit, either, if that's what you're getting at.
It's a bit hard to discuss rationally, though, because there are no rational physics involved. As you basically said, it's largely just a pastiche of conventional aerial dogfighting. However, that limitation was left behind no later than TESB, with the Falcon's wild maneuvers up to and including the asteroid field chase. No aircraft could make the right-angle turn the Falcon did, when it dropped between the Star Destroyers.
It's a bit hard to discuss rationally, though, because there are no rational physics involved. As you basically said, it's largely just a pastiche of conventional aerial dogfighting. However, that limitation was left behind no later than TESB, with the Falcon's wild maneuvers up to and including the asteroid field chase. No aircraft could make the right-angle turn the Falcon did, when it dropped between the Star Destroyers.
I thought it's more to do with the electronic manipulation of the voice. It's as if they are going for a younger sounding Vader. I think it might be a creative choice.
I just finished watching and I thought t was fantastic.
As to the Emperor's secret objective, they were pretty on the nose about Ezra's birthday. I wonder if Palps suspects he might be Padme's child.
As to the Emperor's secret objective, they were pretty on the nose about Ezra's birthday. I wonder if Palps suspects he might be Padme's child.
^ Well, the fate of Ezra's parents has yet to be revealed. If the Emperor has actually spoken with Ezra's parents, then that couldn't be the case. But if Ezra's parents aren't his real parents....
Yeah, it is a bizarre coincidence that Empire Day is Ezra's birthday.
Yeah, it is a bizarre coincidence that Empire Day is Ezra's birthday.
It's not *that* big a coincidence. I mean Coruscant alone supposedly has a population around the 1 trillion mark and who knows how many humans are spread across the galaxy. With those numbers there were probably millions of people born on that exact day and that's just the humans.
Couldn't be. Padme was in the Senate room with Palpatine on that day, blatantly not giving birth.
I think it's a safe bet that the what happened to the Bridgers is just about how you'd expect dissidents speaking against a totalitarian regime to go out. Interrogation followed by disintegration.
That said I wouldn't be shocked if at least one of them shows up somewhere down the line.
The point is that the authors had a free canvas. They could have chosen any date for Ezra's birthday, or chosen not to even mention his birthday at all; there hasn't been an episode about anybody else's birthday. The authors chose to make the dates coincide and to have an episode about Ezra's birthday. All I was saying is that the fact that the writers chose the coincidence draws attention to it. It raises the question of whether there is somehow a connection. If that's what CC was saying, then I agree. If not or if there's something more, then I'm curious as to what he otherwise meant by "on the nose." If it really is just a coincidence, then that's fine, too. Certainly one of the functions of the coincidence is that it simply fed Ezra's dislike of the Empire, which is an important aspect of his character.
