Star Wars Clone Wars Season Premiere

[Admiral_Young]

I first watched the series because I was highly interested in seeing what the dynamic would be like along with the story possibilities of Anakin and Ahsoka and I found myself really liking Ahsoka to the point where she has become my favorite character in the series. I've stated many times before that this is how Anakin should have been portrayed and written in AOTC and ROTS. Temis if you haven't already I would highly recommend watching the Clone Wars movie since that really kicks everything off and formally introduces Ahsoka, she was basically sent to Anakin to teach him about attachments which has concerned the Council greatly. It is implied that Obi-Wan is partially responsible for suggesting to the council that Anakin should take on a Padawan in order to learn this. I agree with the attempts at humor, you nailed it on the head, sometimes it feels forced and comes off flat. I hate the droid humor. Matthew Wood tries his best with the campy dialogue but it fails for me.

 

[DarKush]

I would also recommend the Clone Wars animated feature, however I wasn't super impressed with it when it came out. However, it came out before the series premiered on Cartoon Network. Looking at it from the perspective of being a pilot for the series works better than it as a stand alone movie.

The highlights of the film for me were Ahsoka and the Dooku/Anakin duel, a foreshadowing of ROTS.

 

[Mr Light]

I enjoyed the Clone Wars movie, though the baby Huttling and Ziro the Hutt were a little embarrassing.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Making Jabba look anything other than the gangster he really is was embarrassing. They could have come up with a better plot but I guess they had to try and make the film somewhat kid friendly.

 

[AviTrek]

Probably in a few months, I'll start a thread where I ask for recommendations on what to watch this season. It will take me that long to catch up on S1 and S2. I'm determined to get over my Trekkian disdain for Star Wars villains.

I really think it's the Sith/Dark Jedi and not the clones, has been my problem with getting into this series. I see someone like Dooku or Ventress and think about Dukat, Damar and Weyoun, and the Sith just seem intolerably absurd and campy and impossible to take seriously.

Even the names bug me - Dooku? Grevious? Do they have five year olds making up the names? Why not just call them PooPoo and Doodyhead? Why can't Clone Wars at least attempt a character like Weyoun??? Do they ever even come close?

I like Clone Wars, but I see what you mean. Star Trek Vilians have more deapth to them. I mean Vader of course is great and the Emperor, but I don't think I hate niether of them as Dukat. DS9 is not even my favorite series, but I think Dukat is my most hated Star Trek villian. Even Khan is charasmatic and I understand where he comes from. With Dukat, he's just a cocksucker. I know it has nothing to do with the topic, just wanted to point that out.

As great as Dukat was, a lot of Star Trek villains were pretty bland and cartoonish too. Nero, Ru'afo, Shinzon...Need I go on?

 

[Greylock Crescent]

^ Yeah but a lot of the villains you quote are from what many consider to be "inferior" offerings of Trek. The shows were always at their best when they featured interesting or complex adversaries -- and not just straight out villains, the most obvious exception being Khan from ST: II. For example there is Q who, while adversarial to the crew isn't strictly a villain. Dukat eventually became a silly villain, but I think most DS9 fans will his previous ambiguity.

I think the closest the Clone Wars show gets to this kind of adversary is the bounty hunter Hondo Ohnaka.

 

[Hound of UIster]

Likewise the more complicated villains are not found in the Cartoon, but in other media such as the games, novels and comic books.

 

[Anthony Sabre]

I like the simplicity of villains in Star Wars. There have been enough "complicated" and "sympathetic" villains in modern entertainment. Sure, it's interesting once in awhile to revisit Ventress' burning desire to be taken as Dooku's official apprentice or the fact that Palpatine treats the galaxy like his personal chessboard.

But the basic formula of bad-guys-do-bad-things in the name of power works on the Clone Wars.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Aren't the villains in Star Wars crafted mostly after old style serial villains? The cliched mustache twirling type? I don't think they ever really meant to be sophisticated or complex.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Aren't the villains in Star Wars crafted mostly after old style serial villains? The cliched mustache twirling type? I don't think they ever really meant to be sophisticated or complex.

Yep. Remember Lucas originally wanted to do Flash Gordon. So basically Star Wars villains are as complicated as Ming the Merciless.

 

[DarthPipes]

Palpatine was a one-dimensional villain but it was the performance of Ian McDirmind that raised him to iconic level. He just made it work.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I agree with that...Ian McDirmind is fantastic and of course Lucas's revelation at the end of Empire made Vader into a more complex character.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Palpatine was a one-dimensional villain but it was the performance of Ian McDirmind that raised him to iconic level. He just made it work.

I agree completely that McDiarmid made the role great, but I also think that Palpatine was a lot deeper than your standard one-dimensional villain. He turned people against each other and against themselves and offered the temptation of greater power through the Force and greater influence as his ally whilst turning against his own.

While he did take a straightforward approach to destroying his enemies sometimes, at other times he organized elaborate plans to take them down or to get them to take themselves down and benefit him. I know it's unfashionable, but I think Lucas deserves a lot of the credit for coming up with the Emperor and writing much of the character's dialogue.

 

[Gaith]

Palpatine had no visible motivation for anything he did - not a damn thing - that wasn't either "get more power" and/or "be evil". He had no apparent interest in getting laid, raising an evil yet functional family (even harder than it sounds), enjoying the good things in life, being loved, owning a basketball team - nope, nada, just killing nice people and getting more important offices.

McDiarmid gave a great performance, and I have lots of affection for both him and the character, but come on. His role was as one-dimensional as anyone could possibly conceive.

"Slyly pitting characters against each other" doesn't in of itself make for a deeper character, particularly when you get the sense that he isn't even enjoying the game, and would just kill 'em all on the spot if he thought he could get away with it.

 

[DarKush]

^
Though I agree that Palpatine was a one dimensional character, I disagree that he wasn't enjoying what he was doing. I think McDiarmid displayed a lot of joy at taunting and tempting Luke in ROTJ and I loved that little smile that played across his face as he told Anakin the story of Plagueis. Also, I think Palpatine loved finally cutting loose on the Jedi in ROTS. Palpatine was committed to destroying the Jedi Order, of getting revenge. So, he did have a clear goal that he was totally committed to. He wanted to destroy the Jedi and restore the Sith. In the Zahn book Outbound, its even hinted that Palpatine was motivated by visions or whatever of the coming Yuuzhan Vong and he wanted to prepare the galaxy militarily for them.

Palpatine was designed to be one dimensional. Unfortunately, I was disappointed when I read in one of the Star Wars magazines McDiarmid's description of Palpatine as the devil (I'm paraphrasing). But basically Palps was supposed to be pure evil, with no redeeming qualities. Normally I like more shades of gray but McDiarmid did such a good job pulling it off. And GL doesn't seem to do shades of gray all that well. I think he jacked up Dooku and Anakin in the prequels. The EU did a better job showing them as somewhat multifaceted.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I think it was quite clear that Palpatine enjoyed what he was doing...getting a thrill from it all, dark side rush if you will, feeding off the fear and anxiety of others, etc. I think that I might be one of the minority who actually liked the prequel invention of making him a Sith Lord and having the false duality aspect of his character.

 

[Mr Light]

If you go by the novels, which I do, Palpatine was trying to save the galaxy from the Vong Invasion. He used his precognition to foresee a massive extra-galactic invasion and so decided that he needed to turn the Republic into an Empire, a military machine capable of repelling the invaders. He's a good guy!!!

 

[Admiral_Young]

Yeah I'm familiar with what Zhan attempted to do in "Outbound Flight" and thought his explanation of Palps motivation was fun, but it still really doesn't fit in with the context of his character we're shown in the films.

 

[Gaith]

Though I agree that Palpatine was a one dimensional character, I disagree that he wasn't enjoying what he was doing. I think McDiarmid displayed a lot of joy at taunting and tempting Luke in ROTJ and I loved that little smile that played across his face as he told Anakin the story of Plagueis.

I didn't say he didn't enjoy being evil; I said he showed no signs of enjoying the head games he had to play before allowing his evil free reign.

 

[DarKush]

I disagree. I think he did show signs of that. I'm not sure what type of signs you're looking for. He was very proud about turning Anakin. He boasted to Grevious that it was imminent and he boasted to Yoda about it. I've already mentioned his little smile while recounting the Plagueis tale and the knowing look he gave Padme to push her into calling for a vote of no confidence against Valorum in TPM. Palpatine was having a grand time, but remember, he had to appear to be a model of moderation. He had to appear to be a sober-minded statesmen that hated hoarding all that power while claiming that he didn't want it and that it was temporary. And he had to maintain a poker-face around the Jedi until he had them fully in his trap. At any time before ROTS if he had been found out they would've eventually hunted him down and destroyed him.