Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 4x07 - "Like Chronitons Through the Hourglass"

[AntonyF]

If it was that bad I'd probably stop watching completely.

In some ways it would probably help... for the sanity of people who aren't happy, and the fans who are happy and don't want to hear about it.

Or just choosing not to even attempt it (like I have swerved Academy).

I think the problem is SNW isn't utterly irredeemable, it has a good cast, and it has had good episodes. It's just choosing to do episodes that seemingly don't work for a lot of people right now.

So we sort of hang on... hoping it gets better. Or just committed to see it through until the end of season five. It's also not like we're spoilt for chose in space-based shows right now.

 

[fireproof78]

So we sort of hang on... hoping it gets better. Or just committed to see it through until the end of season five. It's also not like we're spoilt for chose in space-based shows right now.

That seems to be how fans work. Hang on and hoping for a pay off.

 

[DanCPA]

I like this season more with every new episode.

And it's ok if you don't like an episode or two of this season. They're taking big swings, sometimes theyre going to hit a homerun and sometimes the ball will go foul.

 

[DanCPA]

Source: IMDB

S1 average: 7.8
S2 average: 8.0
S3 average: 7.1
S4 average: 6.2

The only episodes this season that have averaged above a 7 was episode one(dinosaur episode) and episode six(disaster homage).


This is all speculation. I don't think they ever did change. We are more than halfway thru the season and it's still homage this and homage that. I think they just made whatever seemed like cool ideas at the time, and since the show is ending anyway, had no desire to change. We will have to wait and see. I'd love to be proven wrong.

I don't care about fan ratings. TNG was far superior to DS9 in the 1990s. And now in the 2020s, we see that DS9 is the superior series.

 

[ichab]

I don't care about fan ratings. TNG was far superior to DS9 in the 1990s. And now in the 2020s, we see that DS9 is the superior series.

I love DS9 too(see avatar), but I don't see any evidence to support that statement. It certainly hasn't been seen that way from the powers that be. Otherwise, we would have gotten a DS9 movie and a DS9 Remastered box set by now. They had to do a crowd funding just to get a decent documentary.

 

[ILovePuppies]

"Shocked" and "desperate" are unjustified characterizations of what the producers are said.

I meant desperate for Year One to happen, not feeling desperate about the state of the show. Who wouldn't be desperate for a new show where you get to make a lot of money and drive forward an immensely popular IP? I assume most showrunners would do just about anything to make a massive, expensive show happen. It wasn't a slight on them, it was an acknowledgement that if they can make a new show happen then they will. If responding to feedback makes that happen then I absolutely think they'll be motivated to do that.

I should have used the word surprised but do think they were very surprised by the feedback. I think they thought fans would love it because season 1 and 2 had a VERY good reception. That wasn't the case and I don't think they saw that coming. As above, I think they'll happily change the tone of the final season if it would make Year One happen. I certainly would if I was in Hollywood.

 

[DanCPA]

I love DS9 too(see avatar), but I don't see any evidence to support that statement. It's certainly hasn't been seen that way from the powers that be. Otherwise, we would have gotten a DS9 movie and DS9 Remastered by now. Heck, they had to do a crowd funding just to get a decent documentary.

TNG has a larger fan base because you have a lot of TNG viewers who didn't keep an eye on our tailor. But our "ferengi pit boss" in Emissary has more character development than the executive officer of the Enterprise

 

[DanCPA]

I meant desperate for Year One to happen, not feeling desperate about the state of the show. Who wouldn't be desperate for a new show where you get to make a lot of money and drive forward an immensely popular IP? I assume most showrunners would do just about anything to make a massive, expensive show happen. It wasn't a slight on them, it was an acknowledgement that if they can make a new show happen then they will. If responding to feedback makes that happen then I absolutely think they'll be motivated to do that.

I should have used the word surprised but do think they were very surprised by the feedback. I think they thought fans would love it because season 1 and 2 had a VERY good reception. That wasn't the case and I don't think they saw that coming. As above, I think they'll happily change the tone of the final season if it would make Year One happen. I certainly would if I was in Hollywood.

I don't think Year One happens because it is limited to one season. Too much in set up costs for just 10 episodes

 

[BigJake]

As above, I think they'll happily change the tone of the final season if it would make Year One happen. I certainly would if I was in Hollywood.

They already shot their shot with Year One and AFAIK the final season has already been produced. What we're getting now is content that was made during that process, which came to an end in 2025. It won't be adjusted or changed in response to anything, it is what it is.

 

[Mudd]

I meant desperate for Year One to happen, not feeling desperate about the state of the show. Who wouldn't be desperate for a new show where you get to make a lot of money and drive forward an immensely popular IP?

So, the term "desperate" is your inference based on what you personally consider reasonable, and not based on any reported statements by the producers.

A mischaracterization.

 

[eschaton]

This is true, but artists look at things way differently than fans. Artists have to say something is good even if they think it's shit.

My go to example is actually in Video Games. Deus Ex was game of the year yet industry insiders told the development team it was shit

I do think it's a good point that what an actor is happy/sad with in a role is different than what a fan is. Actors, as others note, often relish acting against type.

OTOH, actors absolutely don't relish when their characters are sidelined and/or turned into the butt of jokes. Part of the reason why Robert Beltran was so unhappy on Voyager is he was under the impression that he'd be the costar since he was first officer, and then he was upstaged by The Doctor (and later, Seven). Hell, even Mulgrew was famously angry and petty with Jeri Ryan about being upstaged.

So, like, presuming that she didn't request it, maybe Jess Bush is unhappy that she's been given very little to work with this season? I don't think we'll know for quite some time, if ever.

This silly ep didn't work for me. I'm watching to see Star Trek. What I'm getting are too many gimmicks, as so many have already said. It's like the writers have run out of ideas for real stories.

"Hey let's do a musical!"
"How about cartoons?" "Nope, did that already. " OK, then how about one with puppets!"
"Let's do a soap opera!"

Why can't we just boldly go?

Anson Mount raised the score from a 5 to a 6.

Back in my teens, my mother used to watch Days of Our Lives, so I was very familiar with the show, actors and formats. I watched several soaps with her one summer and damned near lost my mind. They went so slowly and never in human nature have people got in so much trouble in such a short time and had it drag on forever.

What it comes down to to me is that you can do this sort of meta, postmodern romp through 20th century media on any show (it was done quite well by Community), but there's only one Star Trek.

Well, two Star Treks right now, but the point remains.

TNG has a larger fan base because you have a lot of TNG viewers who didn't keep an eye on our tailor. But our "ferengi pit boss" in Emissary has more character development than the executive officer of the Enterprise

Let's be honest - aside from Picard, Data, and Worf, the TNG characters didn't have much character development, and can mostly be described by their role on the ship, relationships, and a handful of quirks.

Like, what characterizes Riker other than being a horndog? Or Geordi other than being completely hopeless with women? What characteristics does Bev have besides being a doctor and a mom? What the hell is Deanna's personality beyond liking chocolate?

 

[DanCPA]

I do think it's a good point that what an actor is happy/sad with in a role is different than what a fan is. Actors, as others note, often relish acting against type.

OTOH, actors absolutely don't relish when their characters are sidelined and/or turned into the butt of jokes. Part of the reason why Robert Beltran was so unhappy on Voyager is he was under the impression that he'd be the costar since he was first officer, and then he was upstaged by The Doctor (and later, Seven). Hell, even Mulgrew was famously angry and petty with Jeri Ryan about being upstaged.

So, like, presuming that she didn't request it, maybe Jess Bush is unhappy that she's been given very little to work with this season? I don't think we'll know for quite some time, if ever.



What it comes down to to me is that you can do this sort of meta, postmodern romp through 20th century media on any show (it was done quite well by Community), but there's only one Star Trek.

Well, two Star Treks right now, but the point remains.



Let's be honest - aside from Picard, Data, and Worf, the TNG characters didn't have much character development, and can mostly be described by their role on the ship, relationships, and a handful of quirks.

Like, what characterizes Riker other than being a horndog? Or Geordi other than being completely hopeless with women? What characteristics does Bev have besides being a doctor and a mom? What the hell is Deanna's personality beyond liking chocolate?

Deanna also senses hostility from our enemies of the week. That's important because otherwise we might not know the firing of phasers at us was meant to be hostile.

 

[Jedi Marso]

Last night after SNW finished, I wasn't quick enough to the remote and it just started S1E1 of DS9. I wasn't doing anything, so I sat back and thought I'd watch the beginning battle with the Borg where Sisko loses Jennifer.

I ended up watching the whole two-parter.

And it struck me. What I should really do is stop watching anything from this era of Trek and just go back to the old stuff. There is literally no comparison to be made. Quality vs. Crap. Honestly, I'll probably hold my nose and watch SNW through to the end, but I don't expect I'll ever go back to it for a rewatch when its over. In the meantime, I'm considering starting a re-watch of the entire run of DS9.

 

[DanCPA]

Last night after SNW finished, I wasn't quick enough to the remote and it just started S1E1 of DS9. I wasn't doing anything, so I sat back and thought I'd watch the beginning battle with the Borg where Sisko loses Jennifer.

I ended up watching the whole two-parter.

And it struck me. What I should really do is stop watching anything from this era of Trek and just go back to the old stuff. There is literally no comparison to be made. Quality vs. Crap. Honestly, I'll probably hold my nose and watch SNW through to the end, but I don't expect I'll ever go back to it for a rewatch when its over. In the meantime, I'm considering starting a re-watch of the entire run of DS9.

I restart all the time
Will you watch Academy S2?

 

[ILovePuppies]

So, the term "desperate" is your inference based on what you personally consider reasonable, and not based on any reported statements by the producers.

A mischaracterization.

Yes that's correct it's my inference and I have never read the producers using this word. It seems logical that showrunners would be very eager to make another show and more money.

I didn't base it on any report so it's an inference and not a characterisation - mischaracterisation or otherwise.

 

[Pauln6]

They’re omnipotent beings. The way they experience time shouldn’t make a lick of sense to us. I’ll be honest, I like it that way. Not everything should be dumbed down to the “human” level.

Well, yes, since time happens everywhen all at once, every interaction could have taken place simultaneously from their perspective.

 

[BillJ]

And it struck me. What I should really do is stop watching anything from this era of Trek and just go back to the old stuff.

You do you.

 

[ILovePuppies]

They already shot their shot with Year One and AFAIK the final season has already been produced. What we're getting now is content that was made during that process, which came to an end in 2025. It won't be adjusted or changed in response to anything, it is what it is.

Yes you're right but they had the chance to change the tone following season 3 feedback while they were writing 5. Christina Chong just said at the latest convention (Tampa?) that Paramount told them to make the puppet episode a dream and to reshoot the Spock / La'an breakup to make certain that it actually happened and couldn't be mistaken for part of the dream. That must be in response to feedback from season 3 so changes were made. We haven't seen the impact of those yet as they will only be in season 5. Let's hope they course corrected.

The showrunners just spoke about their still living hopes for Year One a few days ago. It's a long shot as making any show is so hard nowadays. They still have the dream alive though. As they haven't from Paramount, I'm guessing (just a guess) that the ratings of current seasons are still going to matter.

 

[Dar70]

I love DS9 too(see avatar), but I don't see any evidence to support that statement. It certainly hasn't been seen that way from the powers that be. Otherwise, we would have gotten a DS9 movie and a DS9 Remastered box set by now. They had to do a crowd funding just to get a decent documentary.

Which is a shame. I love TNG but back during DS9's first run starting with season three I felt the show was surpassing TNG in a lot of ways and then in 4 it just went off the charts. Loved almost every episode. Too bad a lot of fans didn't give it a fair shake at the beginning. It will have to be good enough to get DS9 characters into other shows one day. Except for Avery Brooks of course. He is fully retired now .

 

[ichab]

Which is a shame. I love TNG but back during DS9's first run starting with season three I felt the show was surpassing TNG in a lot of ways and then in 4 it just went off the charts. Loved almost every episode. Too bad a lot of fans didn't give it a fair shake at the beginning.

It is. DS9 only ran alongside TNG for two years. During that time, TNG S6 was better than DS9 first season, but I much preferred DS9 S2 over TNG's last season. When Voyager started running alongside it, I always preferred whatever DS9 was doing. At that time, Voyager always seemed like a weak imitation of TNG. It really paled in comparison to all the good character arcs and stories that DS9 was doing.

It will have to be good enough to get DS9 characters into other shows one day. Except for Avery Brooks of course. He is fully retired now .

That should have happened around the time of Insurrection. The Enterprise E coming to assist DS9 against the Dominion would have been a far more interesting movie than what we got.