Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 4x06 - "Off-Hour"

[AntonyF]

By this point, there's a solid argument to be made that Trek's Klingons are actually more culturally rich and nuanced than its humans. I wouldn't sweat it.

Yeah totally. Same with Vulcans.

I just think having a white actor looking blacked up story-chronologically now after a black actor just looks a bit icky. I don't think it's major, I'm not getting upset over it. More just a "Ooh that's not a great look." Just this one quite edge case situation.

 

[Yistaan]

As an Asian man myself I don't have a problem with the TOS Klingons. I certainly don't remember George Takei ever mentioning anything on it and he's pretty big on Asian rights.

 

[BigJake]

The original Klingon make up leaned heavily into the Yellow Peril stereotype.

There was a certain deliberately nebulous quality to the TOS Klingons. Were they the Nazis? The Commies? "The Japs" as Navy men of Gene's generation would've called them? The inchoate Black/Brown/Yellow/Red Savage Other?

Yes to all. And no, depending on who's asking. Plausible deniability.

 

[Yistaan]

Back to Boyce and the episode--

Spock: Doctor Boyce, it is good to see you. I need to discuss another medical incident that happened recently. After an ill-advised transporter experiment by Lieutenant Scott, I apparently passed out and had a dream about an Orion--

Boyce: Oh no not you too. (shoots Pike a nasty look)

Pike (shuffles nervously with an embarassed look)

 

[Nerys Myk]

There was a certain deliberately nebulous quality to the TOS Klingons. Were they the Nazis? The Commies? "The Japs" as Navy men of Gene's generation would've called them? The inchoate Black/Brown/Yellow/Red Savage Other?

Yes to all. And no, depending on who's asking. Plausible deniability.

My read is they were going for an Eastern Totalitarian vibe at first. And I think Phillips and Colicos have both said the make up was based on perception in the West of Genghis Kahn

 

[eschaton]

I highly doubt that's an actual factor. The modern makeup costs are mostly about matching prosthetics to the actor. There's no particular racial or ethnic angle on casting that "saves money."

I'd actually argue that historically, the process of building up the nose bridge of Klingons, along with the straight(ish) wigs, kind of acted as whiteface of a sort.

Like, while Michael Dorn as Worf reads as dark skinned to me, the makeup hides most of his black features, making him more racially ambiguous.

 

[flandry84]

I thought they (the Klingons)were space-mongols.
All the later obsession with honour etc. seemed a little misplaced to me.

 

[Turtletrekker]

The reason that TAS was once considered non-canon was because of copyright dispute with Filmation. Once Filmation disappeared, so did the copyright and canon issues.

 

[Gepard]

When they made TOS and TAS they didn't even "know" what year they were set in. Trek "abandoned" this approach before it began.

A lot of us got into Trek well after TOS and TAS, so our expectations and perspectives are not aligned here. For me, TOS not establishing what year it was in is interesting trivia (which I was aware of even as a kid thanks to the Nitpicker's Guides), but ultimately irrelevant to my enjoyment of the ongoing universe, which by now very much does have an internal chronology.

 

[Mudd]

In "Errand of Mercy" they were straight-up Space Nazis. Or Space Fascists, if you prefer. They were a modern (as in, on a par with the Federation) technologically saavy culture with a central authority that ruled conquered peoples with disciplined, strategic savagery while submitting to constant personal monitoring by the state.

Nothing "mongol" about it.

 

[The Salt Umpire]

If the Klingons were an analogue for the Mongols/Genghis's hordes, what were the Romulans?

 

[Yistaan]

If the Klingons were an analogue for the Mongols/Genghis's hordes, what were the Romulans?

Space Romans?

 

[cooleddie74]

They never did anything for us.

 

[BigJake]

It all kind of blends together, really.

 

[BigJake]

A lot of us got into Trek well after TOS and TAS, so our expectations and perspectives are not aligned here. For me, TOS not establishing what year it was in is interesting trivia (which I was aware of even as a kid thanks to the Nitpicker's Guides), but ultimately irrelevant to my enjoyment of the ongoing universe, which by now very much does have an internal chronology.

Internal chronology or not, the major lesson at the core of it is that we are not talking about what a certain alien species from a certain movie might have called "historical documents," and we never have been, whatever loose fictional scaffoldings we choose to erect around them.

 

[BigJake]

In "Errand of Mercy" they were straight-up Space Nazis. Or Space Fascists, if you prefer. They were a modern (as in, on a par with the Federation) technologically saavy culture with a central authority that ruled conquered peoples with disciplined, strategic savagery while submitting to constant personal monitoring by the state.

Nothing "mongol" about it.

I mean, all of this would also apply to an analogue of the wartime Japanese. Who to a certain frame of mind in the day were "Mongoloid" and that's just as plausibly where the look came from. But it's never felt to me to have been designed to be pinned down to any one analogy, they were just The Oppressive Bad Guy Others.

 

[Yistaan]

It's also not like real life tech doesn't also go backwards. PCs used to have optical drives. Now we don't even own our movies or games but they're basically on paid loan on online accounts, and a fair amount of people are saying that's going backwards (the uproar over Sony stopping physical media for PS6). 3D tvs used to be buyable a decade and a half ago. Now they're almost nowhere to be found. And so on.

Aesthetic choices going backwards in Trek when there's no indication that the actual tech has gone backwards the way it sometimes does in real life isn't that big a deal.

 

[Dar70]

It's all canon. Whether or not they use it in current Trek is a different matter.

he said a lot of things. Many of which were ignored by the people in charge.

Well whatever. They can mine whatever they want from it (with references and such) but changing the race of April is a non issue. The cartoon probably has not even been viewed by Star Treks general audience, those who have only seen the live action stuff.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Internal chronology or not, the major lesson at the core of it is that we are not talking about what a certain alien species from a certain movie might have called "historical documents," and we never have been, whatever loose fictional scaffoldings we choose to erect around them.

I have to admit that at the time I didn't realize just how much the Thermians were meant to be a statement about fandom, but I do admit to having some Thermian tendencies myself at the time (which I have thankfully grown out of).

 

[milesandmiles]

If the Klingons were an analogue for the Mongols/Genghis's hordes, what were the Romulans?

German xenophobes.