Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 3x08 - "Four-And-A-Half Vulcans"

[TRON JA307020]

It does not matter what designs some fans love, present day TV productions are not bound by the designs of the past. That would be ridiculous.

Talk to the aliens earth producers. Highly successful show. They're using physical 1979 style buttons and crt monitors and it works. Star wars very similar things going on there. Why should star trek be different?

 

[cooleddie74]

PIC has traditional Connies in the TOS style. The New Jersey at the Fleet Museum IS a TOS-style Connie, just with a slightly different hull font and more aztecing of plating. PIC is also Kurtzman Trek, even if fanboy Matalas was the producer.

 

[fireproof78]

Talk to the aliens earth producers. Highly successful show. Their using physical 1979 style buttons and crt monitors and it works. Star wars very similar things going on there. Why should star trek be different.

Because Star Trek has always updated.

 

[cooleddie74]

Even TOS visually upgraded itself from season to season, however subtly.

 

[nightwind1]

He was hired by Paramount to do the work.

Ben Robinson

Nothing there says he was hired by Paramount.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I love my characters and situations and species I've created for my fan films. I wish they were canon to Paramount. They're not. I live with it and I'm fine.

I'm not referencing my personal Head Canon material.

I'm talking about a piece of fact that was created long before you or I were born, by the author & designer of the TOS Connie.

There's quite the difference between "Our Personal Head Canons" or "Personal Fan Film Content".

The designer of the TOS Connie, Matt Jefferies, was a pivotal contributor to the franchise.

We should respect his work more and not just throw things out because it's inconvenient that his numbers don't match what was presented on-screen 50+ years later by a different work with a different derivative iteration of his ship.

But I'm not the one who has a slavish devotion to Canon Rules and blindly applies it w/o thought to the wider consequences.

 

[Ovation]

But I'm not the one who has a slavish devotion to Canon Rules and blindly applies it w/o thought to the wider consequences.

No. But you are stubbornly refusing to acknowledge that “canon” has NOTHING to do with anything not presented onscreen in an official production. That is the only point everyone has been making—canon=onscreen, everything else=non-canon. No one’s feelings or beliefs are relevant.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

No. But you are stubbornly refusing to acknowledge that “canon” has NOTHING to do with anything not presented onscreen in an official production.

I acknowledge that the rules for ST Canon was decreed from "High Up" by TPTB by Paramount / Star Trek's current Right's Holders.

That is the only point everyone has been making—canon=onscreen, everything else=non-canon. No one’s feelings or beliefs are relevant.

And I just can't accept that blindly changing retro-active information makes sense, despite "Canon Rules" and the way it was applied historically.

That's all, but you keep saying that old numbers have to change because of new info, and I call shenanigans on it for various reasons.

You guys keep telling me to "Shut Up & Accept it"; which I cannot.

 

[I am not Spock]

The problem is the short seasons. When you only get 10 episodes, 3 comedy episodes in a season sticks out a lot more . Like , a third of the season is gimmicky comedies.

Sometimes it feels like they aren't taking the show seriously. I actually didn't mind this episode, but i do hope they return to seriousness for the last two this season

 

[Jedi Marso]

This whole discussion is why 'head-canon' is so important. Decide for yourself what is canon and what isn't, and ignore everyone else's loud jabbering. Life is much more pleasant that way.

My personal canon includes materials from some (but not all) Trek books and publications, some from the old FASA Trek game, John Ford Klingons, Diane Duane Romulans, and so on. SNW is a parallel timeline to 1960's TOS. My canon is mine, and I'm perfectly happy with it, and everyone else can run with whatever they want their 'canon' to be. This is about the only case in existence of my being okay with any sort of non-objective 'truth.'

 

[cooleddie74]

Would I have changed the look of the Pike Era Enterprise to the extent DSC and SNW did? No.

Can I accept the 442-meter length and new scale and realize that Doug Drexler retconned the TOS scale of the ship twenty years ago for an episode of ENT? Yes. The TOS Defiant is a 440-450-meter starship in the Doug Drexler schematics from 2005.

And I'm cool with it all.

This isn't about forcing "new, unwanted canon" down other fans' throats. This is just another case of producers establishing canon that we previously knew only from ancillary materials that weren't 100% official.

 

[Ovation]

That's all, but you keep saying that old numbers have to change because of new info, and I call shenanigans on it for various reasons.

I’ve said no such thing. All I’ve said is the only canonical specific number that has thus far been presented is 442 metres. Any different number that appears onscreen, regardless of the discrepancy, would ALSO BE canonical. As of right now, only one such number exists. Any other number is…non-canonical. This is fact. Intentions are speculative as far as canon is concerned. Therefore, non-canonical.

I don’t have a stake in the details that some wish to exclude or include in canon. My interest is in seeing a definition being acknowledged. Canon is what’s onscreen. Period. There are contradictory continuities onscreen in Trek. They are all, nonetheless, canon.

 

[cooleddie74]

This retconned the TOS Connie to 440-450 meters in length. This was over 20 years ago.

The starship left Spacedock long ago, so to speak. There is no issue anymore.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Because Star Trek has always updated.

As time passed yes. But snw is before Kirk and looks far more advanced thanbehat we saw in todm . Even more advanced at times than tng. A far better viewscreen. Much larger bars and eating areas.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

This isn't about forcing "new, unwanted canon" down other fans' throats. This is just another case of producers establishing canon that we previously knew only from ancillary materials that weren't 100% official.

Ok, cool. If that works for you, I'm happy for you.

I don’t have a stake in the details that some wish to exclude or include in canon. My interest is in seeing a definition being acknowledged. Canon is what’s onscreen. Period.

And I acknowledge that SNW's Connie is what is listed on screen. Period.

There are contradictory continuities onscreen in Trek. They are all, nonetheless, canon.

I know that.

But like George Costanza said, we can't have "Worlds Colliding". Nothing Good will come about from it.

 

[fireproof78]

This retconned the TOS Connie to 440-450 meters in length. This was over 20 years ago.

The starship left Spacedock long ago, so to speak. There is no issue anymore.

Retcons happen all the time. Hell, I developed a security chief character for TOS because I felt they needed to have one more often and named him Lt. Marseille because I have a French last name. There's nothing to say he doesn't exist on the ship, right?

Except, human history can be updated and "retconned" all the time based upon new information. For instance, I said I have a French last name, and my dad was very proud of this French ancestry, as well as liked discussing French history. Only, come to find out that his family did not come from France at all and there's zero French ancestry to our family side. Assumption blown.

On a larger scale, the Hittites and the City of Troy were considered mythological for the longest time, until archeologists discovered evidence in the 1800s. We learn new things all the time, and that's with our real world history that we have evidence for.

In TV shows, continuity is far more mutable. What is considered the greatest TV show ever? The answer is MASH: and it's continuity is all over the map from the real world Korean War. One of my favorite sitcoms has only 5 seasons so continuity should be easy, right? Nope. The penultimate episode is all about a crisis that shouldn't exist because of previously established information.

So on it goes. What's relevant is the drama and entertainment.

 

[Photoman15]

If Doug can just happen to be in the area, and the shop can have a holodeck even though they're not supposed to be invented (or that advanced) yet, I think we can say La'An "just knows" what Romulans look like through some mechanism not seen on screen.

See how TV works? Anything can happen or be true because anything can happen when we're not looking!

Let's remember, Spock says (after seeing the Romulans on the view screen) that it is believed they were an off shoot of Vulcans. Don't forget, knowledge that every Vulcan has is not always shared with outworlders.

 

[Photoman15]

Zero Starships in V'Ger's path that can sustain the speed to catch up and maintain extremely high warp long enough to merge warp bubbles. Enterprise is approaching from the other direction so all she has to do is build speed to match V'Ger's speed momentarily. Most ships can only sustain high warp for a few hours. Enterprise is just throwing a hook in a sandworm as it passes.

And I am unanimous in this.

Also, more importantly, Enterprise was the only starship that could intercept V'ger with James T. Kirk, whose expertise is galaxy-saving missions.

 

[Dukhat]

Sometimes it feels like they aren't taking the show seriously.

Well, nowhere near as seriously as we are, that’s for sure.

 

[Dukhat]

Can't wait for the reaction to a Robert April series in 20 years, with an even larger and more advanced-looking Enterprise.

Only this time he’ll be a woman…Roberta April.