Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x10 - "Hegemony"

[cooleddie74]

Maybe THAT kind of Gorn can die in a vacuum but the more TOS-like one in the Mirror Universe is more resilient under the same conditions?

 

[Amaris]

Maybe THAT kind of Gorn can die in a vacuum but the more TOS-like one in the Mirror Universe is more resilient under the same conditions?

It's possible. We don't know enough about the Gorn to rightly say, but even if ENT meant all Gorn, it's such a small detail that is wholly inconsequential outside of that specific episode, that it could easily be ignored, and so I ignore it because if that tiny detail gets in the way of a good story, that detail can go.

 

[cooleddie74]

#AdjustsNerdCap

I did a good thing today.

 

[fireproof78]

Gorn are genetically engineered. Longer you live, the more you kill, the more enhancements you can select.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

https://www.cinemablend.com/intervi...orn-same-tos-vfx-supervisor-answer-us-excited

Well, there's a lot to be determined yet. So I can't reveal a whole lot of that. But it's like, yeah, if you look at a bee society, you've got drones, and you've got the queen, and you've got workers, and there's some demarcation. So that doesn't mean that what you're seeing right now is the end of the story.

Maybe the Gorn are bio-Borg. What the Borg do through tech, the Gorn do through biology. Heck, maybe this (https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Energy_transference) was a Gorn device.

 

[Donald G]

Yep. Sean Ferrick at Trek Culture gave a downvote during the episode review (it's on Youtube and worth watching, btw) for the scene where Spock drives the object into the Gorn's helmet, causing exposure to vacuum, because of the scene in ENT where it was stated that the Gorn can survive the vacuum of space. Nothing against Sean, he's terrific, it's just some fans will nitpick that, and I don't think it's pertinent enough to care about, quite honestly.

Could someone point me to the specific scene and line of dialogue in "In a Mirror Darkly part two" which establishes that the Gorn can survive in the vacuum of space? I don't remember that line and I couldn't find it during my quick perusal of the transcript of the episode on chakoteya. It's possible that it's there and I missed it.

(Even Memory Alpha can make mistakes, so I prefer to go to the episode and scene itself when I have the opportunity.)

 

[cooleddie74]

I think it's when the Gorn is suspected to be in the Defiant's Jefferies tube network near Main Engineering and that area is at least partially exposed to the vacuum of space outside?

 

[Phoenix219]

I don't know if anyone else has ever stated something similar....

but a Gorn space suit should have been the 1960s costume, and that it was always just a space suit.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Not seeing anything in the transcript. They track down the Gorn and disable him using the gravity controls. Then Archer shoots him six times. (You know, to be sure)

 

[Donald G]

I think it's when the Gorn is suspected to be in the Defiant's Jefferies tube network near Main Engineering and that area is at least partially exposed to the vacuum of space outside?

Nope. Just pulled out the DVD and watched that sequence. No mention of vacuum conditions or Gorn being able to survive such. Nor can I find any such assertion in any scene discussing the Gorn in that episode.

 

[cooleddie74]

Then where did that come from?

I TRUSTED YOU NERDS.

 

[grimorie]

I don't have much to say about the season finale (I really wish New Trek is more than 10 episodes ) since I would rather wait to see the conclusion to judge it. BUT -- I love Baby!Scotty and I am immediately into Pelia as Scotty's Professor, because you know she is fond of him as a student and finds his solutions brilliant. It's his slapdash methods of getting to the solutions she has a problem with. I hope we get to see more of their interaction!

 

[Jedi Marso]

Sigh, DS9 could have solved the Klingons by just not mentioning it. Have Worf made up to look like a TOS Klingon when he was on K7, no one says anything, when he's on Defiant he looks like a MT Klingon. Don't say anything. Let the audience grasp the Klingons always looked like this just the limits of 1960s TV prevented it.

But, no, they had to say something...

That would have been such a cool swerve if they'd done it.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Nope. Just pulled out the DVD and watched that sequence. No mention of vacuum conditions or Gorn being able to survive such. Nor can I find any such assertion in any scene discussing the Gorn in that episode.

Who will break the news to Sean Ferrick at Trek Culture? I expect his Nerd card will be confiscated and burned.

 

[Donald G]

Then where did that come from?

I TRUSTED YOU NERDS.

Someone misunderstanding what they watched and putting an inaccurate recollection into a Memory Alpha entry?

 

[Amaris]

Could someone point me to the specific scene and line of dialogue in "In a Mirror Darkly part two" which establishes that the Gorn can survive in the vacuum of space? I don't remember that line and I couldn't find it during my quick perusal of the transcript of the episode on chakoteya. It's possible that it's there and I missed it.

(Even Memory Alpha can make mistakes, so I prefer to go to the episode and scene itself when I have the opportunity.)

I think it's when the Gorn is suspected to be in the Defiant's Jefferies tube network near Main Engineering and that area is at least partially exposed to the vacuum of space outside?

Not seeing anything in the transcript. They track down the Gorn and disable him using the gravity controls. Then Archer shoots him six times. (You know, to be sure)

I went and watched the episode, and I don't see any mention of Gorn surviving in the vacuum of space. Sean may have been wrong about it.

Edit: Thanks, @Donald G. for getting to it first. Good to know I didn't miss it. I went over it repeatedly and couldn't find it either.

 

[cooleddie74]

Someone misunderstanding what they watched and putting an inaccurate recollection into a Memory Alpha entry?

Won't be the first time.

 

[El Maestro]

Won't be the first time.

And yet I will bet you money we will still see this proven incorrect idea continue to be authoritatively stated….

 

[Sci]

It's completely hypothetical, but if you had a flying car, let alone a magic beam that can take you anywhere in the world (and into orbit), would you still want to drive a wheeled vehicle? Like I get it if you're a Pulaski-type who thinks that stuff is wrong, but then it is ideological in some small part.

I think that's going to depend on the person and on their individual living situation. I do think it's important to bear in mind that between 23rd Century propulsion technology, antigrav technology, and onboard A.I. that are probably capable of interfacing with other vehicles' A.I. to avoid crashes, personal vehicles are probably very different in the 23rd Century for most people.

ENT season 1's finale was a "TO BE CONTINUED..." with "SHOCKWAVE". So that was the last true cliffhanger.

You're right! I completely forgot about "Shockwave, Parts I & II." Insert obvious joke about forgettable ENT episodes.

Anyway, "Shockwave, Part II" aired in 2001, so we're still talking 22 years now since a proper two-parter cliffhanger finale.

The Gorn aren't completely clicking with me either. They're just coming across too much as monsters and not a "just another alien race we don't get along wirh." I mean, if they have FTL ships they have to have a society and structure, right?

Instead they're just monsters.

The Gorn are literally being portrayed as growling, hissing, monsters with wild, quick, reactionary movements and not behaving like an intelligent species that figured out how to travel faster than light.

I think what we're running into is that the Gorn probably have a complex culture and society, but it's probably one which frames at least some non-Gorn lifeforms as being sub-Gorn creatures who are legitimate prey unworthy of empathy or equal rights. To them, they are self-aware lifeforms with rights and complex thoughts and a soul, but we are inferior animals who are just part of the food chain.

That's pure speculation, though. Could be totally wrong!

My actual reaction to the end of this episode: NOOO!!! They can't DO THIS to ME!!!

Now I know what "Mr. Worf, FIRE." must have been like some 30 odd years ago. Only instead of over the summer, this time we might have to wait over a YEAR to see what happens.

Might be two years, if the studios don't accept SAG's and the WGA's reasonable terms pretty soon.

What would you call a Klingon - Gorn hybrid?

Klingorn?
Gorgon?

Klingorn. Gornon.

Obviously Female Gorn have yet to be shown,

I don't think we understand enough about Gorn biology to for that to be obvious at all. For all we know, female Gorn could be the only Gorn we've ever seen.

Obviously TOS isn't actually being forgotten, which only underscores my original point; just create a new alien species instead of calling these creatures the Gorn. They are clearly not the Gorn.

No, they're the Gorn. But we don't yet fully understand what "Gorn" means. Is "Gorn" a species? Does this species contain multiple subspecies? Is "Gorn" a political identity? A cultural identity? Are there a number of different species that constitute the Gorn? We don't have an understanding of Gorn culture.

We need to let go of our preconceptions about what "Gorn" must necessarily mean.

But see, streaming/Kurtzman Trek has also shown the TOS-style Gorn. The skeleton in Lorca's private lab on DSC. The animated Gorn in LD. They're both canon and this means the Gorn Hegemony has more than one look and behavioral pattern for its members.

Yep!

TOS "The Arena": Kirk and Spock seem to have no awareness if who/what the Gorn are.

I rewatched it last night. In "Arena," the crew of the Enterprise didn't even know the aliens who had attacked Cestus III were Gorn until the Metrons transported Kirk and the other captain to the planetary surface. Up to then, they only ever referred to them as unknown aliens.

There is a legitimate question why Spock, Nyota, Christine, and Scotty didn't make any mention of having survived some horrific Gorn attacks six or seven years earlier during "Arena," but that's as far as the apparent discontinuity goes. Kirk even refers to the Gorn captain as "this creature that calls itself a Gorn," which could be interpreted as implying that this Gorn doesn't match with the ones Starfleet is familiar with.

but why in The Arena do Spock and Kirk act like they've never seen or heard of a Gorn before?

They don't.

How much squinting would be involved for 'Gorn' to be the name of the political entity rather than the species' name?

None whatsoever. Canonically we know next to nothing about the Gorn.

 

[Mirror Tuvix]

It's fun to come up with fan canon and such but as far as the corporation goes that makes official Star Trek, they're rebooting the species seen in Arena (and elsewhere) -- they aren't depicting genetic or cultural cousins or blip bloop blep blap.
Akiva Goldsman said: “This is the Gorn as we [the showrunners] perceive them ... This is our version of the Gorn ... our Gorn are real monsters."

Sure, some future Trek could try to retcon and reconcile, but as for now, this is a rebooted element. Pardon, you may now return to the fan fiction.