Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x10 - "Hegemony"

[cooleddie74]

This show will flow right into TOS. It won't be a flawlessly smooth flow, but then TOS doesn't flow flawlessly into its movies and those movies don't connect perfectly with the TNG Era and beyond. And ENT? That series was considered the greatest crime against Trek canon in its history when it was on the air. But it has logical connections to DSC, SNW and TOS and they're all part of the same timeline even if some fans refuse to believe it.

 

[fireproof78]

TOS is being forgotten. This shows portrayal of the Gorn is clear evidence of it.

But enough about ENT.

 

[Vince A]

I don't know how you can say that considering how many call backs (forwards?) there are to it in this series.

For crying out loud they promoted Pike to Fleet Captain for his first meeting with James Kirk so it wouldn't contradict that line from 'The Menagerie'

They recreated 'Balance of Terror' for the Season 1 finale. The Rigel VII mission from "The Cage" was followed up on.

I said that in the context of the Gorn.

TOS is certainly not being forgotten. Rather it is being elevated and made more relevant than it has been in years, and I for one am delighted.

Obviously TOS isn't actually being forgotten, which only underscores my original point; just create a new alien species instead of calling these creatures the Gorn. They are clearly not the Gorn.

 

[Nerys Myk]

TOS is being forgotten. This shows portrayal of the Gorn is clear evidence of it.

TOS: Scary Lizards
SNW: Scary Lizards.
I'm good.

 

[cooleddie74]

But see, streaming/Kurtzman Trek has also shown the TOS-style Gorn. The skeleton in Lorca's private lab on DSC. The animated Gorn in LD. They're both canon and this means the Gorn Hegemony has more than one look and behavioral pattern for its members.

 

[fireproof78]

Why do we assume we know everything off one sample?

 

[Noname Given]

What would you call a Klingon - Gorn hybrid?

Klingorn?
Gorgon?

Gorkon...oh. wait...

 

[Nerys Myk]

Why do we assume we know everything off one sample?

Science is for chumps.

 

[cooleddie74]

Or chimps if your names are Cornelius and Zira.

 

[Vince A]

But see, streaming/Kurtzman Trek has also shown the TOS-style Gorn. The skeleton in Lorca's private lab on DSC. The animated Gorn in LD. They're both canon and this means the Gorn Hegemony has more than one look and behavioral pattern for its members.

I get the point your making, but that's really just another way of saying these are Gorn in name only.

But fair enough, what you're saying makes sense if we think about "Gorn" as the name of a Taxonomic order, similar to "Primates", and the different Gorns we've seen in the various Treks are different families within that order.

I'm not sure that's how the writers intended it, but it does make sense to think about it that way.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I get the point your making, but that's really just another way of saying these are Gorn in name only.

But fair enough, what you're saying makes sense if we think about "Gorn" as the name of a Taxonomic order, similar to "Primates", and the different Gorns we've seen in the various Treks are different families within that order.

I'm not sure that's how the writers intended it, but it does make sense to think about it that way.

That can nest in our head canon until the writers say otherwise. Like TOS Klingons before the Augment storyline.

 

[cooleddie74]

Again: TOS Augment Klingons, TNG and Movie-style Klingons and DSC Klingons. All three looks are canon. All three have happened and have somehow managed to coexist within the Empire.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Again: TOS Augment Klingons, TNG and Movie-style Klingons and DSC Klingons. All three looks are canon. All three have happened and have somehow managed to coexist within the Empire.

 

[Mudd]

Continuity is exactly the job of the writers

"Continuity" doesn't mean explicitly accounting immediately for every detail to the satisfaction of every viewer. There are more important things to do. People can make up whatever explanations they like. We've been doing it since TOS.

I remember TOS fine.

 

[Trekker4747]

TOS: Scary Lizards
SNW: Scary Lizards.
I'm good.

TOS "The Arena": Kirk and Spock seem to have no awareness if who/what the Gorn are.

SNW: The Federation/Starfleet is clearly very aware of who/what they are and are constantly in conflicts with them.

The portrayal, sure, we can chalk up to just a change in production design over the last 60 years but why in The Arena do Spock and Kirk act like they've never seen or heard of a Gorn before?

 

[Commander Troi]

The CGI is almost 20 years old at this point but here's what a faster, more dinosaur-like Gorn was like in Berman Trek.

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Thank you. I haven't seen that episode so it was good to see how Gorn have been reimagined before.

View attachment 35920

It seems to me they've kept the basic structure of the Gorn head/face roughly the same: big eyes, way too many teeth.

 

[Commander Troi]

The portrayal, sure, we can chalk up to just a change in production design over the last 60 years but why in The Arena do Spock and Kirk act like they've never seen or heard of a Gorn before?

I'm hoping we get some kind of answer to that in part 2 of this story. Until that airs () I'm not going to judge that yet.

 

[Noname Given]

TOS "The Arena": Kirk and Spock seem to have no awareness if who/what the Gorn are.
No. Kirk and Spock only know a cold blooded no human alien race who were able to convincingly fake LIVE voice comms of a Starfleet Commodore and other types of Starfleet communications and protocols.

Kirk mentions "...a creature the Metrons call a Gorn..." - And it doesn't look like the Gorn in Starfleet records.

SNW: The Federation/Starfleet is clearly very aware of who/what they are and are constantly in conflicts with them.

The portrayal, sure, we can chalk up to just a change in production design over the last 60 years but why in The Arena do Spock and Kirk act like they've never seen or heard of a Gorn before?

 

[Supervisor 194]

The portrayal, sure, we can chalk up to just a change in production design over the last 60 years but why in The Arena do Spock and Kirk act like they've never seen or heard of a Gorn before?

Easy, the exact text of “Arena” fits perfectly fine with the idea that Kirk didn’t recognize the particular “creature the Metron calls a Gorn” as being of the same species he was familiar with. There is nothing in the dialogue that must be read as the crew never having heard of the Gorn before.

 

[cooleddie74]

And the TOS Remastered Gorn ship they see doesn't match the ones we've witnessed in SNW. This could be a whole Xindi situation where some Gorn look like the TOS/Lorca private laboratory/LD individuals and use the multi-nacelled, thin warships and the SNW Gorn use the more jagged and oblong looking vessels for attack and reconaissance.