Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x10 - "Hegemony"

[Commander Troi]

Yeah it was part of the Gene Roddenberry Star Trek Blooper Reel show that made the rounds to various Colleges back in the 1980s, *-and the tickets were quite expensive back then-*.

I also recall that they had a completely different opening credits, as well as Quinn Martin style bumpers for each Act of the episode to be shown after a commercial break- but this was only for Where No Man Had Gone Before.

I too remember seeing all that when I attended such a show in College Circa 1984.

Huh! I saw the traveling show in 1984 or 85, so I probably had seen this before and just forgot in nearly (gulp!) 40 years.

Gene was at the one I saw, but I remember very little about it except seeing The Cage.

 

[DaveyNY]

Well I still remember at the show I went to, there wasn't a lot of meeting him going on. As I recall he helped them thread the 16mm film into the projector, introduce himself and the fact that it was going to be a reel of bloopers and some other Star Trek related footage from the first and second Pilot, and then he left the room to go out and smoke.

I think there were some in the group I was with that was hoping for a short Q&A afterwards, but someone just went out and got him, and he came back in and picked up the reel of film and left.

I had a completely opposite experience.
First off it was apparently one of the English Prof.'s that arranged the get-together, so several of the participants were very interested in learning the ropes about writing TV scripts and getting into the 'Business'.

Mr. Roddenberry spent about 2.5 hours in the room with us after the blooper reel and the B&W version of "The Cage" was shown, fielding questions from the students and the few of us that were there just to meet him and ask about the show.
It started around 7pm and we didn't get out of there till almost 10:30pm.

It was quite a memorable experience.

 

[Mudd]

I saw GR speak and show the black-and-white workprint of "The Cage" in 1975 or thereabouts, at the University of Maryland. I remember going down to the Varsity Grille afterward and talking with a friend about it for a couple of hours while getting wasted on $1 pitchers and cheap weed.*

I remember that evening as the beginning of my fascination with Christopher Pike. Of course, I'd seen "The Menagerie" many times and years earlier I had read The Making of Star Trek and its description of how the pilot had been repurposed for that episode, but there was something different about seeing it on its own, as a standalone presentation on a big screen.


*Which means it must have been a Friday. Or Saturday. Not Sunday, because the Grille was closed on Sundays so I would have been getting tanked at a coffee house down at Catholic U. Of course, it might have been Monday or Tuesday...maybe Wednesday or Thursday. Definitely one of those.

 

[bryce]

One thing that I really *liked* about the original "rubber suit" Gorn, that none of the other versions have carried forward, was that they appeared to have *compound eyes*. Sure, those eyes were done that way because of costume & makeup limitations of the time, but they gave the Gorn a definitely *alien* appearance. Yeah, on Earth reptiles don't have compound eyes, but this is a whole other evolutionary history, so why NOT compound eyes?
Of course "Enterprise" decided to ignore that and give them regular - albeit very reptilian - eyes...and they are different yet again in SNW....and even the remastered TOS version had the Gorn blink - not that compound eyes preclude having eyelids I guess.
So far the Gorn in SNW and in ENT seem to like very dark spaces. Likely they have very sensitive eyes...maybe the silvery eyes were some kind of eye covering that they use on brightly lit planets - through when the Gorn captain had the time to grab them and put them on, I dunno. Maybe he had them in a personal kit on his person? Or maybe they are some *natural* nictitating membrane/3rd eyelid that slides into place when the Gorn is exposed to bright light?

ANYWAY...

Those "new" phasers did look a lot like the Section 31 phasers (which themselves remind me a lot of the Star Trek III phasers. )

Um...this border situation made NO SENSE...the border runs *right next to* a planet!? And planets *rotate*, don't the Gorn know that!? But if the area was *KNOWN* to be Gorn, and the Federation and Starfleet weren't supposed to go there...then why build a colony there!? And how come Enterprise has to stay out...but the Cayuga went right in!? None of this makes ANY SENSE!?

And they are all *shocked* that the Gorn can cooperate, and do anything OTHER than fight amongst themselves for dominance...and YET, the Gorn *clearly* can build HUGE spaceships and have technology and some sort to technological civilization and some for of government - and can apparently even make *treaties*...ALL of which REQUIRE some cooperation...otherwise the Gorn would just be stuck on their homeworld as primitive savages squabbling amongst themselves.

I am NOT a fan of the Xenomorph Gorns, but it DOES put a weird image in my head when I recall McCoy's line to Carol Marcus in "Into Darkness", when he said that he was once the attending physician at Gorn giving birth!

 

[DEWLine]

Oh, they know. They didn't get themselves out into interstellar space without already knowing this about their own home system. Cultures get built around biologies, of course, so...do they see what they're doing at Parnassus as akin to livestock-farming?

 

[Mudd]

Um...this border situation made NO SENSE...the border runs *right next to* a planet!? And planets *rotate*, don't the Gorn know that!? But if the area was *KNOWN* to be Gorn, and the Federation and Starfleet weren't supposed to go there...then why build a colony there!? And how come Enterprise has to stay out...but the Cayuga went right in!? None of this makes ANY SENSE!?

It makes as much sense as borders in space ever do. It makes as much sense as interstellar war.* It makes as much sense as anything in Star Trek.

I know that some Trekkies read science fiction. But reading conversations online about Star Trek makes it hard to imagine that a lot find much other than Trek very interesting or worth thinking about. That's kind of a shame, because even a lot of the most superficial skiffy stories are more carefully thought out and researched than anything put onscreen. Always have been.

*Which is not to say that it makes any sense at all.

 

[cooleddie74]

It's Star Trek. If I want rigid logic and scientific accuracy I'll go to a Nova special on PBS and even then they'll probably update the episode a few years later once the experts know more.

 

[drt]

Except even back then $15 wasn't that big a deal to meet him.

And today it's a Hell of a lot more than $46 bucks to meet & greet any of the Trek actors.

I'm glad I went to so many of those Creation Conventions in the late 80s/early 90s, we used to have them almost bimonthly in the SF Bay Area. The admission was only around $20 and it included an autograph session with an actor or two.

 

[Commander Troi]

I remember going to one with Frakes as the guest and it was great fun and very intimate.

 

[drt]

I remember going to one with Frakes as the guest and it was great fun and very intimate.

Yeah, over the years I met the entire TOS cast, minus Shatner and Nimoy, the entire TNG cast, most of the DS9 cast (I think I only missed Brooks) and Kate Mulgrew.

 

[DrMike]

I promised my wife I'd wait for her to watch the finale together, and her work schedule was brutal the past week. We finally watched this last night.

I thought it was really good overall. Anything else I can say was probably covered in the 56 pages I have yet to catch up on

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

I am NOT a fan of the Xenomorph Gorns, but it DOES put a weird image in my head when I recall McCoy's line to Carol Marcus in "Into Darkness", when he said that he was once the attending physician at Gorn giving birth!

In the 2013 Gorn video game, McCoy says that Sulu stunned a pregnant female and he therefore had to deliver the babies, who came out biting.

So perhaps:

1) Gorn have multiple gestation methods. They can be pregnant like normal or lay eggs (in people or nests). Perhaps they've weaponized their reproduction.
2) The pregnant female that McCoy did a C-section on was made a xenomorph incubator by fellow Gorn. So McCoy did what might be done to Batel later - a surgical removal of offspring, effectively a C-section.

 

[Sci]

Um...this border situation made NO SENSE...the border runs *right next to* a planet!? And planets *rotate*, don't the Gorn know that!? But if the area was *KNOWN* to be Gorn, and the Federation and Starfleet weren't supposed to go there...then why build a colony there!?

1) It wasn't known to be claimed by the Gorn.

2) It's an independent colony, not a Federation colony. They wanted to be outside of Federation territory and to not be part of the Federation at least in part out of a mistaken belief that political independence would mean the Federation's enemies wouldn't target them.

And how come Enterprise has to stay out...but the Cayuga went right in!?

What do you mean? The Cayuga was already destroyed in the initial Gorn attack.

And they are all *shocked* that the Gorn can cooperate, and do anything OTHER than fight amongst themselves for dominance...

They were surprised Gorn younglings can do that, not adult Gorn.

and YET, the Gorn *clearly* can build HUGE spaceships and have technology and some sort to technological civilization and some for of government - and can apparently even make *treaties*...

The Federation has not yet been established to be aware that the Gorn Hegemony is willing to negotiate and execute interstellar treaties. In fact, we the audience don't know anything about the Gorn polity except its name. We don't even know if they have a government per se.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

The line was a demarcation line not an established and recognized border.
The Gorn sent the image to Starfleet on short notice.
There was no treaty around it or anything, beyond “hey, if you cross this line we’ll start shooting”.
the purpose was to keep Starfleet away from the colony until the Gorn were done with it.
The fact the planet would eventually move away from it on it’s orbit around the star was not important. The colony operation was expected to only last a short while.

 

[AntonyF]

A few random thoughts thrown out there:

I found it started well, there was a real menace when the Gorn arrived. I assume the American setting was more a convenience of available set as not overly keen on that but will forgive it.

I like that feeling of menace, of colonising worlds, the dangers of the unknown... this strikes a vibe that I feel SNW should strike more. Make space feel dangerous.

I will be attacked as she has her fans, but I continue to be so over Chapel. She is god-like in this show's eyes. There's nothing she can't do. No story she can't be in and be great at. Sole survivor of a massive ship destruction, let's add that one to the mix. And more Spock/Chapel romance that I just don't care about. I am really over the focus on them as a couple. FYI: You won't change my mind, you don't need to change my mind as I just don't like it.

I am disappointed that Ortega feels like she's not had any real focus this season. I fear - just my fear - they'll set her up for a departure soon.

Scotty seems a nice addition, and I really buy into him at Scotty. I think an obvious trademark like the accent helps with that, but he had spark.

 

[Mudd]

Christine is awesome.

 

[Gepard]

So perhaps:

1) Gorn have multiple gestation methods. They can be pregnant like normal or lay eggs (in people or nests). Perhaps they've weaponized their reproduction.
2) The pregnant female that McCoy did a C-section on was made a xenomorph incubator by fellow Gorn. So McCoy did what might be done to Batel later - a surgical removal of offspring, effectively a C-section.

3.) The movies and shows are from two different creative teams and they neither know nor care what the other did.

I don't see any point in trying to reconcile any of it.

 

[Macintosh]

The fact the planet would eventually move away from it on it’s orbit around the star was not important. The colony operation was expected to only last a short while.

It'd have to be a bloody short while. Planets move a lot. The Earth moves over 2.5 million km along its orbit every day. That's about 200 times its own diameter. Perhaps the demarkation line is set with regards to the planet and moves with it.

 

[Jedi Marso]

The line was a demarcation line not an established and recognized border.
The Gorn sent the image to Starfleet on short notice.
There was no treaty around it or anything, beyond “hey, if you cross this line we’ll start shooting”.
the purpose was to keep Starfleet away from the colony until the Gorn were done with it.
The fact the planet would eventually move away from it on it’s orbit around the star was not important. The colony operation was expected to only last a short while.

EXACTLY.

Thank you, I was thinking about how I wanted to try and articulate this.

 

[Tallguy]

If there are borders in space then spacefaring peoples have learned how to demark them. Don't overthink it because the people in universe already have done.

Re-watching seasons 1, Chapel got a retroactive level of badass this season. In All Those Who Wander she was capable but not prepared, being somewhat out of her depth. Since this season gave her a war veteran background with M'Benga she's more specifically combat ready.