His agent?
Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x08 - "Under the Cloak of War"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
... Deep Space Nine is not the only space show to deal with war. Calling it a "Deep Space Nine" episode gives DS9 more credit than it deserves.
The Doctors actor is the best actor on this show.
Anyone else think the fallout from this episode needs a 1 or maybe even 2 episode revisit in S3?
Its pretty clear this is stagesetting for future episodes
Yeah, I mean this is what I assumed after episode 1 but at least it's spelled out for people now.
Not to turn this much into a TNZ post I guess, right now a war basically between NATO and the Russians is being fought with drones and missile strikes. Entire Russian positions are being taken out by drone pilots flying 100 dollar drops with grenades strapped to them, armor being destroyed with HIMARs and artillery strikes from miles away.
Yes troops are going to be used to control or retake territory, but there's a reason why the Ukrainians are asking for more jets and missiles and advanced tech, not for more boots on the ground. They want the advanced tech because that's what is required for a conventional battle. And that's before even considering asymmetrical warfare and how large occupation forces don't work either.
it seems wild to me that in a future where there are likely full AI drones, even more weapons of mass destruction and also weapons that can be much more targeted like phasers, that you'd send in hundreds of thousands of troops to occupy a planet. Even the logistics of doing that alone are kind of wild - Google says a Galaxy class ship can hold anywhere from 10,000 to 100,000 people. I have no idea if they have ships of that size in the TOS era, but I assume Constitution class ships would hold much less. How many ships would you need to dedicate to basically launch D-day style invasions/defences of planets across the front?
After Vietnam and Afghanistan, I think the idea of sending large occupation forces to sit on a location for decades is presumably never going to be repeated again. Or at least I'd hope people at the various military colleges out there realize that fighting a war like WW2 doesn't make any sense in 2023... let alone 2223.
Hell, in the context of DS9, the Bajorans proved that large scale occupation doesn't work if you have a people fanatical enough to fight an asymmetrical war to drive out occupiers - because they have access to technology that renders large groups of troops ineffective.
But like, I also understand why you want to use those tropes. Because people have WW2 and Vietnam in mind, at least in an American/Western context, so it's easy to evoke that imagery of doctors on a war front patching up soldiers constantly being dropped off.
Like I'm not expecting The Expanse from Star Trek... I get that it's a total different thing, which is why for me it's a nitpick rather than something that ruins the episode (and basically most of DS9) for me.
???? What the fuck does that mean?
There's no such thing as normal.
Either way the top of his head takes elements from the Discovery Klingon makeup.
While I’m a Star Trek fan, I take note that, “Yes, it’s murder, but it’s murder of the Klingon version of Eichmann.”
One of my complaints about Deep Space Nine is the fact that Gul Dukat is meant to be a Nazi officer and the show waffled between the idea that he was redeemable or not. I feel like they made the right call by settling on the fact, “Dukat is incapable of reform and will always be a monster because the kind of man who did the thing he did is incapable of seeing what he did as wrong.”
Weirdly, my biggest comment about this episode is, "How stupid is the Federation?" Going with the above Eichmann example, General Dak'Rah is a guy SO SCUMMY and SO DISHONORABLE that the Klingons call what he did mass murder and this is a guy the Federation appoints as an ambassador. It's akin to appointing Ted Bundy or Jim Jones to be the ambassador to the United States. Yes, Ted and Jim would know United States culture but it's an insult and I can't imagine did the Federation any favors. It really goes a long way to suggest the Federation does not understand the Klingons on ANY conceptual level.
I also hoped we might have example Klingon handling of Medical Workers vs. Federation more with chapel. Like the Mandalorians in Star Wars, Klingons seem to consider medical staff to be valid military infrastructure and presumably their medics are armed combatants as well.
One of my complaints about Deep Space Nine is the fact that Gul Dukat is meant to be a Nazi officer and the show waffled between the idea that he was redeemable or not. I feel like they made the right call by settling on the fact, “Dukat is incapable of reform and will always be a monster because the kind of man who did the thing he did is incapable of seeing what he did as wrong.”
Weirdly, my biggest comment about this episode is, "How stupid is the Federation?" Going with the above Eichmann example, General Dak'Rah is a guy SO SCUMMY and SO DISHONORABLE that the Klingons call what he did mass murder and this is a guy the Federation appoints as an ambassador. It's akin to appointing Ted Bundy or Jim Jones to be the ambassador to the United States. Yes, Ted and Jim would know United States culture but it's an insult and I can't imagine did the Federation any favors. It really goes a long way to suggest the Federation does not understand the Klingons on ANY conceptual level.
I also hoped we might have example Klingon handling of Medical Workers vs. Federation more with chapel. Like the Mandalorians in Star Wars, Klingons seem to consider medical staff to be valid military infrastructure and presumably their medics are armed combatants as well.
Just digging in, liking it so far.
"... a few years ago" is an odd title card for a flashback sequence. Why not be more specific?
There's a... "charm" to seeing Clint Howard in a Star Trek again. At all, really, not sure when I last saw him in something new
"... a few years ago" is an odd title card for a flashback sequence. Why not be more specific?
There's a... "charm" to seeing Clint Howard in a Star Trek again. At all, really, not sure when I last saw him in something new
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Well, IF they used an actual star date or were more specific, we'd all be on here trying to correlate that to canon and an official timeline or trying to pin it into one of the many suspect universes. They're trying to spare us the anguish...
Well, IF they used an actual star date or were more specific, we'd all be on here trying to correlate that to canon and an official timeline or trying to pin it into one of the many suspect universes. They're trying to spare us the anguish...
Considering they're using Stardates as carelessly as they did in TOS (I get the "joke" of it and love it) an actual Stardate would've been fine. 9n another front we need to know it's in the past son would saying "five years ago" have been that hard.
It was just an observation anyway, enjoying the episode so far.
A
Amaris
Guest
Plus, "a few years ago" is a good way to start a story, IMO. Getting too bogged down in details is a surefire way to miss the point of the message. Again, IMO.
Yeah, that "stands out" (pun intended) too much for my liking. Red plate doesn't bother me as much as that insiginia.
Probably 1.
Indeed. Klingons have many variations. It's ok.
Not for a happy ending - the missed opportunity came from the story being too busy and not being able to draw on it's strongest potential aspects. We spent a lot of time getting to the M'Benga/Rah encounters but by the time we reach them, we only spend enough time with them as is needed to move the story forward. For my 2 cents, I think M'Benga/Rah encounter should have been the episodes primary focus - something like DS9's Duet episode.
We've got some great story points and questions that the episode could have delved into. They're all in there to some degree, but there's not much depth to what we got. Imagine how gripping a long, tense conversation between M'Benga and Rah and the audience is trying to second guess where each of them are really coming from...
- What's Rah's true angle?
- Personal redemption vs. accountability vs. justice vs. the greater good of the Federation
- M'Benga's skin in the game and navigation of that.
- Contrasting how M'Benga and Rah have come to cope with their traumas.
I think this is basically a DS9 "Anti-Trek" story. Which is the fact that we have a scenario about a man who committed war crimes and we assume it'll end with his story being that he's sincere in his redemption and M'Benga reluctantly forgiving him.
But no, Rah ****ed up and he knew he didn't have a place back home in the Klingon Empire so he decided to join the Federation and throw his men under the buss.
And it's probably better M'Benga killed him.
From TNG through Voyager there was a logic to the Stardates, 1000 units was a year (well a show's season) with SD 41000 being TNG S1.
SNW is just throwing a number out there without any real logic to it, like they did in TOS. How about reading my whole post? JTFC, people can't say *anything* outside of doration and praise, can they. All I said was that not giving a specific timeframe in the flashback was odd and they could have just put some random number up there and let the audience take from context it was the past.
I didn't say it was a massive, negative, thing impacting my episode ( I made a point of saying I wad LIKING the episode!) it was just an observation.
Stand down, Vice Admiral.
Aaaand another Clint appearance
"Commander Buck Martinez"? Whoever wrote this episode must be a Toronto Blue Jays fan.
