Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x02 - "Ad Astra Per Aspera"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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I imagine it wasn't hard, the potential issues from GE are scary. From one member gaining more advantages or disruption of the status quo. Andorians, Tellarites, Vulcans can all be difficult to deal with as they are. An enhanced one could be frightening
Even if this episode was near perfect, I don't believe that would change anything. Some people are oblivious to their illogical beliefs. Others don't care and will say/believe anything that justifies their agenda
Told you they wouldn’t contradict DS9.
We know from TAS that April was the first captain of the Enterprise and the ship’s launch date of 2245 was made canon in Discovery season 2.
S1 was 2259 so season 2 might be 22602019 compared to SNW S2 (2257/8?)
Not really
This was great Trek. Totally up there with Measure of a Man. Reminded me why I love this franchise more than your average franchise. 10/10
I spent close to a decade covering courts as a newspaper reporter. This episode rings true, with allowances for the drama. Star Trek is a mirror for present day society. Our legal system is as capricious, hypocritical, maddeningly legalistic, illogical, spiteful and unjust as the Federation at its very worst. The plea deal behind the scenes and the overcharging when Una wouldn’t fall into line are perfect examples. She got off on a technicality and Starfleet doesn’t actually have to deal with the flaws in its legal system.
That said, I’m not sure it’s as on the nose about certain modern day politics as the writers probably think. There are legitimate debates to be had about certain laws and rights of individual groups and how to balance the needs and rights of one group and another group when they conflict. In Una’s case, she was apparently genetically modified before her birth. Her parents made the choice for her and then arguably committed child abuse by not having her broken leg treated immediately. The price of treating her was that the family would be outed and may have faced some legal consequences. What happened to the 10 or 12 year old Illyrian boy who was arrested with his family? If they sent a child to a penal colony, the Federation is monstrous. If the family was fined and the kid barred from Starfleet Academy but they are otherwise free to go about their lives, maybe not.
I’d be interested in a back story explaining where Una got her human name. If the genetic modifications were made before she was born, her family has probably looked human for generations.
That said, I’m not sure it’s as on the nose about certain modern day politics as the writers probably think. There are legitimate debates to be had about certain laws and rights of individual groups and how to balance the needs and rights of one group and another group when they conflict. In Una’s case, she was apparently genetically modified before her birth. Her parents made the choice for her and then arguably committed child abuse by not having her broken leg treated immediately. The price of treating her was that the family would be outed and may have faced some legal consequences. What happened to the 10 or 12 year old Illyrian boy who was arrested with his family? If they sent a child to a penal colony, the Federation is monstrous. If the family was fined and the kid barred from Starfleet Academy but they are otherwise free to go about their lives, maybe not.
I’d be interested in a back story explaining where Una got her human name. If the genetic modifications were made before she was born, her family has probably looked human for generations.
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I loved how Spock didn't lie on the stand about Una's "secret". He just told the truth about a different secret than the prosecutor was hoping for 
And damn, that lawyer was sharp, despite winning on a technicality. I hope we see her again and they pick up the Illyrian storyline down the road. Too big a gap between this episode and Doctor Bashir, I Presume? not to revisit the subject.
And damn, that lawyer was sharp, despite winning on a technicality. I hope we see her again and they pick up the Illyrian storyline down the road. Too big a gap between this episode and Doctor Bashir, I Presume? not to revisit the subject.
I thought the episode was really good. And the closing statement and Una getting asylum had the right emotional impact.
My question is how come Una is getting prosecuted for being genetically modified but nobody says anything about La'an being an augment, and not just an augment but apparently a direct descendent of Khan, the mass murderer who started the Eugenics War which the Federation says is the basis for their ban on genetic modification? I would think if the Federation is so concerned about augments starting another Eugenics War to the point of banning all genetic modification, they would have a problem with Khan's direct descendant serving onboard a Starfleet vessel! I hope they address this because it seems like a glaring plot hole. And La'an even mentions to Una's defense lawyer that she is worried she has the potential of becoming like Khan. So I hope they address this further. Frankly, unless they do come up with a good explanation, I am not sure what is even the point of her character. Why even have a descendant of Khan serving on the Enterprise which seems like a violation of canon as seen in the ep "Space Seed"?
I will say that I think the whole ban on genetic modification seems silly. It is textbook discrimination which you would think the Federation would have moved past at this point. This episode even references discrimination that we've seen in real history (against blacks, against LGBT etc). The Federation has rejected those forms of discrimination but it can't see that it is doing the same discrimination?
And the reasons for the ban don't make sense either. Yes, the Eugenics Wars were horrific but they were a long time ago by this point in time. A lot has changed, both socially and technologically. And the Eugenics War likely had several factors that caused it, not just the fact that Khan and his followers were genetically enhanced. So you cannot pin the whole thing on just genetic modifications. And blaming individuals for what a group did hundreds of years does not make sense. It feels like Starfleet is just afraid and not thinking rationally. Just like the Prime Directive, it seems Starfleet likes to make blanket rules instead of looking at things in a more nuanced, case by case way. They should look at individuals on a case by case basis and look at what type of genetic mod they have. For example, a genetic mod that gives you better taste is different from a genetic mod that gives you super strength or super intelligence. Surely, someone with enhanced taste is not going to become another Khan. To just act like everybody with any genetic mod could potentially become the next Khan so we should just ban them all, is really painting everyone with the same brush and going to extremes.
My question is how come Una is getting prosecuted for being genetically modified but nobody says anything about La'an being an augment, and not just an augment but apparently a direct descendent of Khan, the mass murderer who started the Eugenics War which the Federation says is the basis for their ban on genetic modification? I would think if the Federation is so concerned about augments starting another Eugenics War to the point of banning all genetic modification, they would have a problem with Khan's direct descendant serving onboard a Starfleet vessel! I hope they address this because it seems like a glaring plot hole. And La'an even mentions to Una's defense lawyer that she is worried she has the potential of becoming like Khan. So I hope they address this further. Frankly, unless they do come up with a good explanation, I am not sure what is even the point of her character. Why even have a descendant of Khan serving on the Enterprise which seems like a violation of canon as seen in the ep "Space Seed"?
I will say that I think the whole ban on genetic modification seems silly. It is textbook discrimination which you would think the Federation would have moved past at this point. This episode even references discrimination that we've seen in real history (against blacks, against LGBT etc). The Federation has rejected those forms of discrimination but it can't see that it is doing the same discrimination?
And the reasons for the ban don't make sense either. Yes, the Eugenics Wars were horrific but they were a long time ago by this point in time. A lot has changed, both socially and technologically. And the Eugenics War likely had several factors that caused it, not just the fact that Khan and his followers were genetically enhanced. So you cannot pin the whole thing on just genetic modifications. And blaming individuals for what a group did hundreds of years does not make sense. It feels like Starfleet is just afraid and not thinking rationally. Just like the Prime Directive, it seems Starfleet likes to make blanket rules instead of looking at things in a more nuanced, case by case way. They should look at individuals on a case by case basis and look at what type of genetic mod they have. For example, a genetic mod that gives you better taste is different from a genetic mod that gives you super strength or super intelligence. Surely, someone with enhanced taste is not going to become another Khan. To just act like everybody with any genetic mod could potentially become the next Khan so we should just ban them all, is really painting everyone with the same brush and going to extremes.
The writers on this episode definitely understood the assignment. Fantastic courtroom episode of Trek.
Do we know if Denobulus is part of the Fed at this point, and are there now Denobulans in Starfleet?. Because didn't Phlox mention that Denobulans have been genetically engineering themselves for hundreds of years.
I wonder if they’ve thought it out that far. Khan’s genetic modifications were heritable and La’an is possibly a granddaughter or great-granddaughter who was naturally conceived, gestated and inherited DNA. Una was apparently genetically modified in the womb or was possibly genetically engineered as an embryo. The one instance is inherited; the other isn’t. The Illyrians on Una’s colony were admitted on the condition that they stop genetic engineering. Una’s parents broke the law and had her genetically modified in knowing violation of that law.
The teaser makes real assholes of the Federation.
Good.
Anson Mount is beautiful. Best Captain.
So far this is more plausible than other Trek courtroom episodes by a few million miles.
Neera's motivation rings true.
The admiral's defense of the law in granting asylum was complete mealy- mouthed bullshit.
Good.
Anson Mount is beautiful. Best Captain.
So far this is more plausible than other Trek courtroom episodes by a few million miles.
Neera's motivation rings true.
The admiral's defense of the law in granting asylum was complete mealy- mouthed bullshit.
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250 years since Khan left earth, so more like a 4 times great grand daughter.
Ok but I am not sure how that really changes the argument. If the concern is that ALL genetic enhancements could potentially lead to another Eugenics War, hence the ban, then it should not matter if the genetic enhancements are inherited or not. Individuals with inherited traits should pose the same potential risk as individuals who modified their genes after birth. And I still think that genetic modifications should be examined on a case by case basis. For example, modifying your genes to cure a disease is very different than modifying your genes to get superstrength. Some inherited traits could be more of a threat than a gene modification. Also, you don't need to modify your genes to be a potential threat. There are plenty of psychopaths, mass murderers, dictators in human history (Hitler, Stalin, Mao etc) who committed great atrocities on par or worse than the Eugenics War and they were not genetic augments. But if you believe that genetics can play a role in certain traits like being a psychopath then you should look at those specific traits whether they are inherited or not.
