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Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 1x09 - "All Those Who Wander"

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valden said:
Let's be honest his sexual relationship with Spock and Tpring has already stretched canon. Now we are meant to believe he likely also bedded Chapel.
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That is more than a stretch, the best one can say at this point is that Chapel is developing an affinity for Spock (which continues in TOS) and he's done nothing mindfully to encourage her to do so.
His obvious conflict with his human emotions at this time has him very confused and he isn't purposely trying to lead Chapel on.
I doubt very much he will accede to her solicitations and sleep with her.
You can almost see from the way she walks away after they hug, that Chapel realizes it can't go anywhere.

And nothing we saw or heard in TOS precludes T'Pring and Spock from having a previous sexual encounter.

Everything your harping upon is mainly fan-canon over the years, not actual on-screen Canon.
 
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Arpy said:
Well, it was good while it lasted...


La'an was pointless as a Noonien Singh, which made making her one problematic. Kirk & Co. look bad.

Whoever owns the Xenomorphs needs to sue the fuck out them. Newt, too. That ain't homage. It's theft.

I made allowances for the series given how impressed I was with the premier especially, but seeing where they took it, they shouldn't have used the Gorn. These beings bear little resemblance to the originals, who Kirk, again, seems a fool to have never heard of. They could have made them Tzenkethi or Jaradans or even Kzinti, or something else.

The point of the TOS Gorn were that they looked menacing and they'd acted viciously, but they were intelligent spacefaring beings who had been wronged. These things were straight-up monsters from an 80's horror movie. It's like we learned nothing about not judging a book by its cover, people by how they look.

And they grew at an impossible rate.

Ortegas would call him a "blue meanie"...he's literally white.


Some nice tension and thrills, gorgeous food and heart-warming opening scene (lulling us into a false sense of homey good vibes), cool animatronic new alien, Spock "logically" using his rather sexy rage, a GoT episode 9 shocker thing going, and all the Uhura stuff was great, including the last bit on the bridge (also gorgeously shot), but...but.... It get's a 3 from me. It could have been an 8 or 9...but the cons hit hard.

The Gorn remember.
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The bean-counters and marketers at Paramount+ call this a prequel, but you're better off just doing what most of the rest of us do and think of it as more like a soft-reboot. Not as much of a reboot as the Kelvin Films, but it's on the Reboot Spectrum.
 
Really, at this point, I'd say blur or go against canon (new timeline) for Spock/Chapel. (What's the portmanteau for that Spapel? Chock?) Because just feels intense between them and not it all on par with what goes on between them in TOS. This isn't a Spock who's going to throw her soup out his room door against the bulkhead.
 
DaveyNY said:
That is more than a stretch, the best one can say at this point is that Chapel is developing an affinity for Spock (which continues in TOS) and he's done nothing mindfully to encourage her to do so.
His obvious conflict with his human emotions at this time has him very confused and he isn't purposely trying to lead Chapel on.
I doubt very much he will accede to her solicitations and sleep with her.
You can almost see from the way she walks away after they hug, that Chapel realizes it can't go anywhere.

And nothing we saw or heard in TOS precludes T'Pring and Spock from having a previous sexual encounter.

Everything your harping upon is mainly fan-canon over the years, not actual on-screen Canon.
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Honestly I think he is encouraging her, although knowing in TOS canon, I know he ends up turning her down and she gets desperate that she even uses a love potion on him, but the way this show is going is making it not add up much to TOS.

I think the only way a spock and chapel romance could work here in SNW is that they did date, have sex and something happened that does not make spock remember by TOS but Chapel does, which let's be honest if that happens will go down in one of the worst star trek writing ever and a wtf spock storyline. Also for modern writing in 2022 when women are meant to be more equal to men and not be all about chasing men. Chapel is chasing here.

He is leading her on, and now since we know the outcome in TOS, it fills like he is using chapel for some kind of experiment.


Tpring = Arranged Marriage duties

Chapel = Sow your Oates.

Leia= Genuine almost first love?

This is how I see the show going.

If spock and chapel do sleep together then this is not a tos prequel, because Chapel should not even be able to get near spock to give him a hug.

I am by no means a kirk/spock slash fan and no I dont think kirk and spock should ever be canon but where i give those spirk K/S fans credit in their case to make kirk and spock a couple is that, in TOS Spock does not seem to have much time for women and nothing in his past you life alluded to that except with Leia however he has full devotion to Kirk and Bones. Kirk mostly.

The story in SNW is not adding up that much and the whole point of prequel is to add up to the original, the only way spock and chapel can be a couple in SNW is to go full alternate reality. This Chapel is already the most changed much. I love how you said not give in to her solicitations and sleep with her. LMAO.:lol: It makes Chapel look very desperate which is not a good look on her or writing modern female characters. Chapel started of almost as the cool girl in class but from episode 5, her entire stick has been wanting to bed Spock, so like it or not. this is what is now always going to define Chapel both in TOS and SNW. SNW creator lied in interviews when they said, they wont make Chapel all about trying to bed Spock but isn't true.

I am by no means a kirk/spock slash fan and no I dont think kirk and spock should ever be canon but where i give those spirk K/S fans credit in their case to make kirk and spock a couple is that, in TOS Spock does not seem to have much time for women and nothing in his past you life alluded to that except with Leia however he has full devotion to Kirk and Bones. Kirk mostly.

The story in SNW is not adding up that much and the whole point of prequel is to add up to the original, the only way spock and chapel can be a couple in SNW is to go full alternate reality. This Chapel is already the most changed much.
 
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valden said:
he is the creator of the show. his vision is what we see in the show. look at it this way, Joss Whedom may not have written many Buffy episodes but Buffy the vampire slayer was his vision and he used many writers to bring it to life.

I don't hate the guy as I dont know his personally what I do know is his tv and films and how bad, medicore, rushed, average they can be. SNW has been going down since the last few episodes but this episode with hammers death represents some of the worst aspect of discovery that we see here.
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Blame the Showrunner, if you want to go that way, not the Creator. Alex Kurtzman oversees five Star Trek series and others in development. He's a rubber stamp at this point and hands off except when he can't be. The Showrunner directly deals with one particular series. Alex Kurtzman is like Rick Berman. The Showrunner is like Michael Piller or Jeri Taylor or Ira Steven Behr.

DS9 says "Created by Rick Berman & Michael Piller" but we all know it was more Michael Piller's show during the first two seasons and Ira Steven Behr's for the rest of it. Rick Berman then focused more of his energies (more, not all) elsewhere in the franchise. TNG says "Created by Gene Roddenberry" but he was only the actual Showrunner for the first 18 episodes of the first season. After that, he stepped back (whether forcibly or otherwise), and became less and less involved as his health further declined.
 
I guess we now know why Hemmer wasn't in a handful of episodes this season. Basically being reduced to a recurring character so killing him off wouldn't be as much of a shock, perhaps?
 
Oh c'mon..., go get a room already...!!
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Hemmerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! We hardly knew you! I loved his awesome talk to Uhura before he went out into the cold. "Just like Andor!" :wah:

Uhura and La'an speaking about Hemmer at his funeral wes really nicely done. Even Spock was struggling to control his feelings, receiving an awesome Chapel hug to make it all better. I think Christine's feelings for Spock are really going to cause her pain somewhere down the line.

I loved the creepy-assed Alien homage running all over the place, causing chaos. I also enjoyed seeing the Gorn again.

10. A tense ensemble hour.
 
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Well.. Good episode.. To much a direct rip of Aliens but hey..
And Hemmer.... .. That sucked.. Best character in the show..
Was hoping the cold would shut the eggs down.... But when he jumped .. Ugh.. Shouting Nooooooo!
 
Both excellent and heartbreaking.

I'm surprised they didn't go this route in the final episode, instead of this week and I hope we get La'an back next season at least.

I am also surprised they killed off a main cast member and sent another one packing (at least temporarily). I know TMP did it with Tasha, but 24 episodes vs 10, etc, etc.
 
fireproof78 said:
Actually, it's to flesh out the past, and give depth to past relationships.
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Past relationship that is meant to explain future stories well that is believable . Obi Wan in the Kenobi series stayed pretty much in character that adds up to the original trilogy. Many characters here in SNW are acting out of character and are just breaking canon unnecessarily. We did give Kelvin timeline a hard time for some things and that was an alternate reality where there was no need to stick to canon. SNW is meant to stick to canon and at least have the characters have a little self-respect of themselves. Geez, Chapel the dude is engaged. hugging and kissing an engaged man, makes you look worse here than in TOS.

Alternatively, it may have been better to have just not done the Spock/Tpring thing. they should have gone with spock, chapel and a new female character in the love triangle, with the new female character as the in the SNW chapel role who wants to bed Spock so badly, while Chapel just chills around, hoping one day Spock notices her over time. Many fans were right when they said this new nurse chapel is to0 re-imagined. In a mirror universe, no doubt Mirror Chapel will be a like Potiphar wife or some kind of Femme Fatale


Lord Garth said:
Blame the Showrunner, if you want to go that way, not the Creator. Alex Kurtzman oversees five Star Trek series and others in development. He's a rubber stamp at this point and hands off except when he can't be. The Showrunner directly deals with one particular series. Alex Kurtzman is like Rick Berman. The Showrunner is like Michael Piller or Jeri Taylor or Ira Steven Behr.

DS9 says "Created by Rick Berman & Michael Piller" but we all know it was more Michael Piller's show during the first two seasons and Ira Steven Behr's for the rest of it. Rick Berman then focused more of his energies (more, not all) elsewhere in the franchise. TNG says "Created by Gene Roddenberry" but he was only the actual Showrunner for the first 18 episodes of the first season. After that, he stepped back (whether forcibly or otherwise), and became less and less involved as his health further declined.
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So the reason the last few episode of SNW has discovery story telling is because? Not to mention, a lot of the political stuff of the show is still sticking to discovery like last week episode where they turned Pike into a weak coward , a reoccurring theme in nu trek that men are more of a coward or easy to be molded than women. this is also the issue with spock here, Tpring is clearly wearing the pants in that relationship while at the same time Chapel keeping coming on to him.
 
valden said:
in TOS Chapel says in an episode that this is the very first time she has been this close to spock and now she wants to die. those were her words, so how do we go from that to the possibility of spock and chapel having sex in SNW and giving him hugs that is crossing the lines of a man who has a fiancée.
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In Plato's Stepchildren. She says she's wanted to be close to him for so long and now she wants to die. That doesn't imply they never have. Only that it's been a long time since. The writers have watched the damned show. They've figured out how to slip stuff through the cracks. And where it won't slip in, they make it fit. I don't hate that approach at all. YMMV.
 
Seven of Five said:
Hemmerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! We hardly knew you! I loved his awesome talk to Uhura before he went out into the cold. "Just like Andor!" :wah:

Uhura and La'an speaking about Hemmer at his funeral was really nicely done. Even Spock was struggling to control his feelings, receiving an awesome Chapel hug o make it all better. I think Christine's feelings for Spock are really going to cause her pain somewhere down the line.

I loved the creepy-assed Alien homage running all over the place, causing chaos. I also enjoyed seeing the Gorn again.

10. A tense ensemble hour.
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At least in Discovery they buried Airam in the next episode. Hemmer here, all it so fast and rushed.
 
I was shocked that Hemmer actually died. I kept thinking that maybe once he went out into the cold (which he could tolerate just fine) the critters would perish and they'd be able to fix whatever damage they'd caused. But then he walks off the edge and we get that shot of him falling. Even then, when we see the ships leaving orbit I thought oh, right, we're going to find out they recovered him and he was in stasis so they could fix him up later because how could he be dead now? We hardly got to know him.

But I'm glad they committed to that tragedy so that the ones we knew would die - (who didn't see the newly made Lieutenant and never-before-seen cadet were doomed?) - wouldn't be a red shirt joke but that their deaths would be more meaningful for the company they were in.

I have a theory (shared by a few here) that Spock and Chapel will cross a line next week (or come very close) and this will make him go to the other extreme. We'll see that Roger Korby has already been in the picture, maybe he's the commitment she's been running from, and now she'll say yes to his proposal of marriage or she'll propose herself.
 
valden said:
So the reason the last few episode of SNW has discovery story telling is because? Not to mention, a lot of the political stuff of the show is still sticking to discovery like last week episode where they turned Pike into a weak coward , a reoccurring theme in nu trek that men are more of a coward or easy to be molded than women. this is also the issue with spock here, Tpring is clearly wearing the pants in that relationship while at the same time Chapel keeping coming on to him.
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The storytelling has been nothing like Discovery IMHO. Hell, the storytelling in Discovery hasn't been consistent. The first two seasons had fast-paced overly complicated plot-driven storytelling, a darker tone, and limited character work. Seasons 3-4 had straightforward (but slow paced) plot work, a lighter tone, and melodramatic, unearned character beats. Actually that's even a simplification, as the change began mid season 2, but you can really see the difference in the show between the era Berg/Harberts were the showrunners, and when Michelle Paradise stepped in. Which IMHO suggests that Kurtzman had a pretty light touch overall.
 
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