Not whatsoever. Development builds upon where the writer started, from Benny Russell's experiences, and move forward.
Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 1x08 - "The Elysian Kingdom"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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And we have zero information as to when he wrote this story.
So, yes, there is an assumption here. I do not agree that he would "never write such a story." Sure he would, depending on where he was at in his life and experiences.
He's an African actor of, I believe, Nigerian descent.
Well, if said daughter is dying of space cancer and has hours to live--and said magic trick is curing her--I might consider it.
And M'Benga never asked about the possibility of carrying elements of Debra (the nebula) with them, assuming that it was possible, so that Rukiya will be healed in the normal world and she won't have to leave her friend entirely behind. The idea that he can only choose to either restore the ship to normal or to let Rukiya be healthy is fairly silly, as presented. YMMV, of course.
I have rather mixed feelings overall about the episode, because I feel like the concept was good but it's thrown together rather clumsily. There are a lot of plot elements that don't really work for me, especially parts of the ending, because there should have been more build up to them. I wish the episode had a bit more polish and different execution.
Don't play coy. Either explain your meaning or don't.
Also it's clear that the Pah Wraiths are involved here. This doesn't mean there wasn't a real Benny, and who cares, anyway? It's just a nice reference.
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A Boltzmann brain would likely not be able to have parts of it snipped out without affecting the whole. It's not just a nebula, but a living brain. I doubt many would be open to the idea of having a partial lobotomy, even if it were to help someone else. Plus, the solution, as presented, is so much more elegant: she lives forever. She will never know death, not in the way that mortal beings learn of death.And M'Benga never asked about the possibility of carrying elements of Debra (the nebula) with them, assuming that it was possible, so that Rukiya will be healed in the normal world and she won't have to leave her friend entirely behind. The idea that he can only choose to either restore the ship to normal or to let Rukiya be healthy is fairly silly, as presented. YMMV, of course.
I have rather mixed feelings overall about the episode, because I feel like the concept was good but it's thrown together rather clumsily. There are a lot of plot elements that don't really work for me, especially parts of the ending, because there should have been more build up to them. I wish the episode had a bit more polish and different execution.
IDK- The entity was pretty clear that once they leave the Nebula, Rukiya's illness would return and the only way to keep that from happening was stay in the Nebula - or have Rukiya join with the Brain.And M'Benga never asked about the possibility of carrying elements of Debra (the nebula) with them, assuming that it was possible, so that Rukiya will be healed in the normal world and she won't have to leave her friend entirely behind. The idea that he can only choose to either restore the ship to normal or to let Rukiya be healthy is fairly silly, as presented. YMMV, of course.
I have rather mixed feelings overall about the episode, because I feel like the concept was good but it's thrown together rather clumsily. There are a lot of plot elements that don't really work for me, especially parts of the ending, because there should have been more build up to them. I wish the episode had a bit more polish and different execution.
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One question might be what happens if word gets out about the nebula.
Would certain people, perhaps others with incurable illnesses of their own, try to reach the nebula in order to seek a form of immortality, regardless of the trade-offs involved? What if they aren't welcome - how does the nebula turn them away? Would Starfleet have to establish perimeter patrols in order to keep outsiders at arm's length?
Even if the crews of visiting ships have their memories wiped, the absence of evidence from a certain time period would itself be a hint that something is going on - despite Dr. M'Benga keeping the "true" story in the same hidden filing cabinet as the "Una is an Illyrian" data point for the time being...
Would certain people, perhaps others with incurable illnesses of their own, try to reach the nebula in order to seek a form of immortality, regardless of the trade-offs involved? What if they aren't welcome - how does the nebula turn them away? Would Starfleet have to establish perimeter patrols in order to keep outsiders at arm's length?
Even if the crews of visiting ships have their memories wiped, the absence of evidence from a certain time period would itself be a hint that something is going on - despite Dr. M'Benga keeping the "true" story in the same hidden filing cabinet as the "Una is an Illyrian" data point for the time being...
So did every one like Anson Mounts performance. I was laughing hysterically when he ran scared. Lol
Well, this is the first SNW episode that I didn't like. Gave it a 6. My friend and I watching it were just bored for the first 3/4.
Pros:
- M'Benga was good throughout as was Ortegas, and Hemmer was top notch! More Hemmer team-ups are needed! Uhura may have been good too, but I was so bored at that point I kinda tuned her out.
- The hard choice M'Benga had to make at the end was the most interesting part of the whole episode. (Though not carried off as well as it should have been.)
Cons:
- first 3/4s, except for the stuff with Hemmer, were boring and had zero stakes.
- M'Benga's choice and the potential consequences was given way too little time. And was resolved too patly.
- The acting was ok from most of the cast, not great, and had no impact whatsoever on anything outside of M'Benga. The dreaded Voyager reset button strikes again!
They could have expanded the ending with Rukiya to be most of the episode, to really explore the decision. The decision itself and all the possible alternatives and potential outcomes should have taken more time and been weighed more fully. One option could have been using the effective time-dilation of "life in the nebula" to really see Rukiya grow as a person over the course of the episodes - like a reverse "The Visitor". The ending, as it was, was way too pat and undercut the message of the episode. M'Benga had about 1 minute to decide the fate of his daughter for potentially all time, and he kind of shrugs, asks her if she is ok with it and lets her get swept away.
Alternatively, they could have kept the original structure of the episode - with 30+ minutes of fluffy (if mildly entertaining acting) by tying the storybook characters to the Enterprise crew more. They should have all retained their memories of the event. There was no reason not to, and every reason to have them keep their memories, but again, the Voyager reset button killed any learning to be had. They could also have had the storybook character traits somehow taught us more about our characters. They could have been aware of both their true character and their storybook character, giving them a chance to act "out of character" when needed to advance the plot, but also a chance to learn ad contribute to the mission. The writers could also have aligned the storybook characters with the crew, maybe showing some underlying flaw or question or unexplored interest each of the crew have or maybe didn't even really know about until now. Instead, no one learned anything and most of it doesn't matter for them or for us viewers.
Conclusion: This episode was too much TNG's "Masks" and not enough TOS's "Shore Leave"
Benny was real, Sisco had either read him before which inspired the Pah'Wraiths to use Benny as a message to Sisco, or they brought Benny to Sisco's attention for the same reason. Either way, I have never before heard of anyone thinking Far Beyond the Stars was bad. Hmm.
Pros:
- M'Benga was good throughout as was Ortegas, and Hemmer was top notch! More Hemmer team-ups are needed! Uhura may have been good too, but I was so bored at that point I kinda tuned her out.
- The hard choice M'Benga had to make at the end was the most interesting part of the whole episode. (Though not carried off as well as it should have been.)
Cons:
- first 3/4s, except for the stuff with Hemmer, were boring and had zero stakes.
- M'Benga's choice and the potential consequences was given way too little time. And was resolved too patly.
- The acting was ok from most of the cast, not great, and had no impact whatsoever on anything outside of M'Benga. The dreaded Voyager reset button strikes again!
They could have expanded the ending with Rukiya to be most of the episode, to really explore the decision. The decision itself and all the possible alternatives and potential outcomes should have taken more time and been weighed more fully. One option could have been using the effective time-dilation of "life in the nebula" to really see Rukiya grow as a person over the course of the episodes - like a reverse "The Visitor". The ending, as it was, was way too pat and undercut the message of the episode. M'Benga had about 1 minute to decide the fate of his daughter for potentially all time, and he kind of shrugs, asks her if she is ok with it and lets her get swept away.
Alternatively, they could have kept the original structure of the episode - with 30+ minutes of fluffy (if mildly entertaining acting) by tying the storybook characters to the Enterprise crew more. They should have all retained their memories of the event. There was no reason not to, and every reason to have them keep their memories, but again, the Voyager reset button killed any learning to be had. They could also have had the storybook character traits somehow taught us more about our characters. They could have been aware of both their true character and their storybook character, giving them a chance to act "out of character" when needed to advance the plot, but also a chance to learn ad contribute to the mission. The writers could also have aligned the storybook characters with the crew, maybe showing some underlying flaw or question or unexplored interest each of the crew have or maybe didn't even really know about until now. Instead, no one learned anything and most of it doesn't matter for them or for us viewers.
Conclusion: This episode was too much TNG's "Masks" and not enough TOS's "Shore Leave"
My thoughts almost exactly!
I think Benny was just either a sci-fi writer Ben had read before that the Pah'Wraiths used for their story or one that they brought to his attention (but he never really wrote a DS9 story).
Exactly. Agree on all these points!
I am hoping Ben's interaction with the Pah'Wraiths revitalized the memory of a long ago, and likely underappreciated, sci-fi writer in the Trek Universe.
It would have been neat that instead of having no tie into the ship's mission, that the Enterprise probing the nebula should have been the "nucleating event" that caused the consciousness in the nebula to form.
I can't say that QPid is good, but this episode was certainly way, way better than Fair Haven. And way better than most of DIS.What a worthless pile of shit. QPid is great because the whole crew knows they're being messed with by Q, this was just fucking Fair Haven but with LARPing instead of Irish stereotypes. This is now easily the worst episode of SNW, beating out the stupid child sacrifice episode and the Freaky Friday episode. I'd almost rather watch 50 minutes of Michael Burnham & friends softly discussing their feelings while crying over on DSC then rewatch this episode.
1/10, I can't believe we had a shitty holodeck episode on a show that (as of yet) doesn't even have a damn holodeck.
Edit: I just read about the DS9 reference, so I'll take this opportunity to say fuck DS9's Far Beyond the Stars, it was the second worst DS9 episode after Profit and Lace. Also, how the hell can a figment of Sisko's imagination write a book
Benny was real, Sisco had either read him before which inspired the Pah'Wraiths to use Benny as a message to Sisco, or they brought Benny to Sisco's attention for the same reason. Either way, I have never before heard of anyone thinking Far Beyond the Stars was bad. Hmm.
Agree with all this, especially about letting the kid decide and M'Benga's anguish. M'Benga's choice was the only moment I felt anything more than boredom while watching last night.
This would have been a good idea to have covered with this episode. And if they were actually trying to do this in this episode, they failed.
Welcome to the wonderful world of episodic storytelling.
I'm not sure that, in terms of stakes or groundedness, Shore Leave is the example you want to go with.
Like Doctor Who. You never know what you're going to get each week. Some end up being really good. Others you'd rather not watch again. I can only hope for more good ones than bad ones. But I'm in no rush to watch since they're all pretty much one offs.
Nope.
Yeah, I love how TOS has suddenly become the baseline of "groundeness and science" in these discussions. I truly am blown away by the selective reasoning applied with this show, even a show supposedly beloved by several.
You may both be right, but I'll admit one of my issues with this episode is how Debra is able to alter the ship in the manner she (?) does. From my very limited understanding of the basic concept of the Boltzmann brain, I didn't get the impression it would be able to affect its environment in such a way versus being a sentience, but I might be wrong. Plus in a Trek context, it's really at the whim of the writers anyway.
Was there actually any specific reason given why Debra's powers included healing Rukiya, or was it more just a plot device? Because that's sort of how some of the less successful elements in the story felt to me. I didn't really like how the altered crew didn't seem to mind that their "kingdom" had starship parts everywhere but they found technology to be like "magic."
I also found the memory wipe of everyone but M'Benga at the end to be kind of odd, since there's no context to support it. As Ometiklan says, there's a number of ways the story could have connected with the characters better.
Yesterday was crazy in RL, so I admit my memory of dialogue is less good than normal. I'll try not to overthink things.
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Boltzmann brains manifest with a full memory of the universe. A simple understanding of how the cells in Rukiya's body work would present a solution from such vast knowledge. In such a situation, too, imagination and reality would be the same thing. Deborah got the idea from Rukiya, after all, when putting together a fantasy for her to enjoy.You may both be right, but I'll admit one of my issues with this episode is how Debra is able to alter the ship in the manner she (?) does. From my very limited understanding of the basic concept of the Boltzmann brain, I didn't get the impression it would be able to affect its environment in such a way versus being a sentience, but I might be wrong. Plus in a Trek context, it's really at the whim of the writers anyway.
Was there actually any specific reason given why Debra's powers included healing Rukiya, or was it more just a plot device? Because that's sort of how some of the less successful elements in the story felt to me. I didn't really like how the altered crew didn't seem to mind that their "kingdom" had starship parts everywhere but they found technology to be like "magic."
I also found the memory wipe of everyone but M'Benga at the end to be kind of odd, since there's no context to support it. As Ometiklan says, there's a number of ways the story could have connected with the characters better.
Yesterday was crazy in RL, so I admit my memory of dialogue is less good than normal. I'll try not to overthink things.
It was dumb.
I guess the problem with having 10 episodes a year is each one has to count, and except for the ending, this one didn't... Where's Captain Proton when you need him?
