Spoilers Star Trek: Prodigy 1x20 - "Supernova, Part 2"

[AnimationAdmiral]

But the Protostar drive still seems to be a better and more advanced drive than standard warp, regardless of the fact that it still uses dilithium. So why didn’t they continue to use it?

Because dilithium was in considerable short supply and still considered a volatile unknown after The Burn. It’s also possible given the odd time wormhole creation that the Proto-drive may prove too unreliable for anything but specialized missions. Same reason that quantum slipstream was mentioned in DIS S3, but not an option; benamite crystals were too rare to be scalable fleet wide.

Its not a matter of impossibility — the couriers like Book prove that in DIS S3. It’s scalability.

 

[captainkirk]

The proto-drive also seems to have a very long recharge time between jumps. And there's the fact that it requires containing a small star on board. I imagine that makes it difficult to mass produce.

 

[JoseNoodles]

I gave it a 9/10. Good episode, but definitely a bit rushed in pacing. Still, there were some touching moments with Holo-Janeway, real Janeway, and the kids. I do wonder how they survived being adrift for a month without food or water, what that other wreckage was, and how they ended up drifting all the way to Earth. I also wonder if the creation of the wormhole and Gwen's mission doesn't end up starting the civil war on Solum that she's trying to prevent. Definitely interested in seeing Janeway's new ride in Season 2.

Also in regards to the Proto-drive, isn't it just an enhancement of traditional warp drive? As such, it wouldn't be a complete alternative if you still needed dilithium. Also the risk of creating a supernova might limit its widespread use.

 

[Tuskin38]

IIRC, Enterprise-A was originally the USS Yorktown, but rechristened Enterprise (A) because of Kirk & Company saving the universe (yet again).

From a production point of view, that's an urban myth.

Though there are non-canon stories that have used the Yorktown, and other stories that have had it be a different existing Constitution.

 

[David cgc]

Would SF even allow Janeway to go get Chakotay from the future? If he’s somewhere in the future they generally frown on anything time travel related. I Wonder if the DTI makes an appearance next season.

It does seem to be setting things up to get even more timey-wimey, with Gwyn going to Solum of the present and Janeway and the rest of the crew going to Solum of the future. They did mention specifically that the wormhole leading to Chakotay was an "alternate" future, so it's possible the Diviner, Vindicator, and buried Protostar already butterfly-effected enough to prevent or alter their eventual first contact, and the future-Solum will be isolated from whatever's happening in the present. Or there'll be a time-loop and the crew will meet an older Gwyn in the future, and it turns out all of that stuff was already part of the Diviner's version of history. Or some kind of crazy Doctor Who mix where the future is reforming around Janeway's mission because of stuff Gwyn is doing in the past.

 

[Oddish]

But the Protostar drive still seems to be a better and more advanced drive than standard warp, regardless of the fact that it still uses dilithium. So why didn’t they continue to use it?

Maybe there's a shortage of suitable protostars.

 

[Slugboy]

On another note, I think this is probably my favourite line so far in the series:

Janeway: "Is he [Dal] genetically engineered? Yes. Was he enhanced in every way? Look at him. Of course not!" [Dal sighs]

Janeway handing out the sick burns even at a tribunal.

 

[JoseNoodles]

On another note, I think this is probably my favourite line so far in the series:

Janeway: "Is he [Dal] genetically engineered? Yes. Was he enhanced in every way? Look at him. Of course not!" [Dal sighs]

Janeway handing out the sick burns even at a tribunal.

An uber-level backhanded complement, lol.

 

[Deks]

Because dilithium was in considerable short supply and still considered a volatile unknown after The Burn. It’s also possible given the odd time wormhole creation that the Proto-drive may prove too unreliable for anything but specialized missions. Same reason that quantum slipstream was mentioned in DIS S3, but not an option; benamite crystals were too rare to be scalable fleet wide.

Its not a matter of impossibility — the couriers like Book prove that in DIS S3. It’s scalability.

Benamite crystals can be synthesized though.
The only thing with them was that they decay relatively fast (or at least that was the case when VOY first used the technology), and that synthesizing new ones 'might' take years. The SF made Dauntless had a QS drive, so benamite crystals weren't mentioned as being an issue in terms of decay anymore - or at least the showrunners mentioned that it was a matter of using the drive sparingly (as needed) to reduce the decay rate... so it seems, the crystals decaying issue was solved in part... they still decayed by 2383, but only AFTER being used (and not all the time - whether they were used or not).

Anyway, I won't go into a too long of a explanation, but here's my problem: this wouldn't be the case hundreds of years later. At best, UFP would have (realistically) resolved these issues in the next few decades at most (aka, most certainly by the mid 25th century).
Given that the UFP knew how problematic Dilithium mining is, you'd think they would have jumped at the chance of developing new power source technology to replace antimatter - but Disco writers evidently didn't think that way.

 

[mithril]

perhaps Starfleet was able to adapt the dilithium recrystalization technology to work with benamite as well? voyager was just 150ish people so they can be excused for not figuring out all the possible options. but if they can rebuild the crystals when not using the QSD, it would make it more reliable. and the crystals could still take a long time to make, since setting up the crystal structure would be harder than just reinforcing and repairing it.

and while QSD is good for moving between placed fast, you still need normal warp to for shorter steller distances. even the original alien dauntless had standard warp as well. so you'd still need dilithium moderated warp cores on slipstream ships, even in the 31st century.

and the fact that book mentions slipstream as an option suggests it was in common use in the post-burn. its just that the crystals are subject to the same limited resource issue that so much else is in the post-burn. presumably the groups able to grow them aren't doing so in mass quantities or giving them out to just anyone. (the emerald chain certainly wouldn't be, being hypercapitalists)

 

[Deks]

It does seem to be setting things up to get even more timey-wimey, with Gwyn going to Solum of the present and Janeway and the rest of the crew going to Solum of the future. They did mention specifically that the wormhole leading to Chakotay was an "alternate" future, so it's possible the Diviner, Vindicator, and buried Protostar already butterfly-effected enough to prevent or alter their eventual first contact, and the future-Solum will be isolated from whatever's happening in the present. Or there'll be a time-loop and the crew will meet an older Gwyn in the future, and it turns out all of that stuff was already part of the Diviner's version of history. Or some kind of crazy Doctor Who mix where the future is reforming around Janeway's mission because of stuff Gwyn is doing in the past.

Here's my beef with this:
How do they know the future in which Chakotay is in is in fact 'alternate'?
Janeway was the first to mention it in one of her Instagram logs, but HOW does she know its an alternate future?
I don't think they can realistically make that determination (at best it seems like an assumption), and the whole thing could easily still be a predestination paradox.

The Vau'N'A'Kat may be technologically advanced, but its also possible/likely that their experiences with time travel were non-existent leading up to the Protostar's arrival (the Vulcans thought time travel was impossible in the mid 22nd century despite evidence to the contrary).

As such, all Ascensia and the Diviner did were set things into motion that would result in a chain of events resulting in the same future that Chakotay is in - in effect, everything that happened to date on Prodigy in 2383 was in fact MEANT to happen (and already happened).
Even Gwyn going to Solum could have been meant to happen. Its possible she will never get there (Ascensia is still out there after all), or her efforts to unify Solum may fail (or backfire) and create the division that First Contact exaccerbates (or she manages to only convince half the population that being part of a galactic community isn't bad).

Its also possible that she might be seen all grown up in the future where Chakotay is helping him to relay his messages back to the past.

I don't see how the future can reform around Janeway's mission because of what Gwyn is doing in the past... because if she DOES change things like that... Gwyn herself would effectively cease to exist (as would the Prodigies and events we just witnessed - and I don't think Prodigy will be aiming to do that).

So, either its a predestination paradox we're looking at here, or its a separate timeline where things won't be changed, but Solum could still end up unified as a result of whatever Janeway and her crew do there (in the future) and help that Solum to get back on track while the one in the present averts a civil war (but I still don't think it will be as 'easy' as that).

 

[Deks]

perhaps Starfleet was able to adapt the dilithium recrystalization technology to work with benamite as well? voyager was just 150ish people so they can be excused for not figuring out all the possible options. but if they can rebuild the crystals when not using the QSD, it would make it more reliable. and the crystals could still take a long time to make, since setting up the crystal structure would be harder than just reinforcing and repairing it.

That's what I'm thinking might have happened (that they were able to recrystalize benamite).
But, even making new crystals wouldn't remain time consuming for very long... certainly not after decades or possibly a century of using the technology, and most certainly not given the knowledge and technology SF corps of engineers already has at its disposal (Trek also mentioned ability to grow crystalline structures fast and have observed such processes before).

Synthesizing benamite crystals (Even if time consuming) shouldn't be a problem. SF and UFP can just set up various facilities that would produce benamite in various quantities at given times. If you time it right, you end up with continuous supply - aka, you wouldn't have a single facility doing the synthesis.

But, this isn't the issue... the main power source is.
Arturist fake Dauntless didn't use Antimatter (it was mentioned in the dialogue)... SF still uses Dilithium and M/AM as a main power source.

UFP and SF were already researching new power sources... but its extremely unlikely that nothing ever came to be.
The research behind Kriega waves survived.
SF encountered and had scans of multiple advanced power reactor technologies that went beyond Dilithium and M/AM.
To say it would be impossible for them to make their own version at most 50 years after encountering those technologies is a bit absurd if you ask me considering how advanced UFP actually is.

Maybe there was a concentrated effort within UFP to keep it dependent on Dilithium and M/AM?
Given all the infiltrations SF had in the past, it wouldn't surprise me if those spies hadn't sabotaged new power source research or work intentionally so that UFP wouldn't gain an advantage over them.

 

[mithril]

It does seem to be setting things up to get even more timey-wimey, with Gwyn going to Solum of the present and Janeway and the rest of the crew going to Solum of the future. They did mention specifically that the wormhole leading to Chakotay was an "alternate" future, so it's possible the Diviner, Vindicator, and buried Protostar already butterfly-effected enough to prevent or alter their eventual first contact, and the future-Solum will be isolated from whatever's happening in the present. Or there'll be a time-loop and the crew will meet an older Gwyn in the future, and it turns out all of that stuff was already part of the Diviner's version of history. Or some kind of crazy Doctor Who mix where the future is reforming around Janeway's mission because of stuff Gwyn is doing in the past.

personally i'm expecting time loop.. that the Prometheus found Solum because Gwyn led it there.. and that the civil war was because a group of vau n'kat learned about the timeloop and weapon and was trying to stop the xenophobic government and change the future. making it a predestination loop. (i also suspect that the reveal of the loop will be the mid season 2 cliffhanger.. and the 2nd half of season 2 will be the group escaping the future, and then going to current day Solum to change things more to prevent that future entirely.

 

[Deks]

personally i'm expecting time loop.. that the Prometheus found Solum because Gwyn led it there.. and that the civil war was because a group of vau n'kat learned about the timeloop and weapon and was trying to stop the xenophobic government and change the future. making it a predestination loop.

That's basically what I am expecting.
A predestination paradox... aka, what happened was always meant to happen, and SF's and Janeway's assumptions about the 'alternate future' are ultimately wrong... but its in fact part of the 'prime timeline' that's unavoidable and HAS to happen (Solum in effect might end up having to go through its civil war so it can move forward - a lot of other Trek species [but not all of them] had their own civil wars because of similar issues - so I don't necessarily think the Vau'N'A'Kat would be any different).

 

[Jag2112]

Screencaps gallery for the finale now online:

https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/sc-PRO1-20.php

 

[mithril]

one question i have is how their shuttlepod (which was missing half its systems) made it to earth from Gamma Sepentus (about 37 lightyears from earth) without a navigation system., why it is surrounded by a bunch of debris, and how did the kids survive in that tiny shuttle with barely any room and no supplies for a month?
to be honest it feels like they should have gone for "a few days later" instead of "one month later", and set the armada stuff in the Sol system.

i guess it is possible they salvaged parts off the wrecked ships to jury rig a nav system.. but the "one month later" thing is still kinda iffy feeling.

 

[thribs]

If Gwyn goes back to her home planet and changes the timeline, that would mean her father wouldn’t go back in time and she wouldn’t be created. Hence she won’t be able to change the timeline.

 

[JoseNoodles]

If Gwyn goes back to her home planet and changes the timeline, that would mean her father wouldn’t go back in time and she wouldn’t be created. Hence she won’t be able to change the timeline.

Yeah that's a pretty obvious paradox, unless Gwen is really willing to sacrifice her existence for her people.

 

[Oddish]

Star Trek follows the "durable timeline" rule. A butterfly flaps its wings and... nothing happens.

 

[Tuskin38]

If Gwyn goes back to her home planet and changes the timeline, that would mean her father wouldn’t go back in time and she wouldn’t be created. Hence she won’t be able to change the timeline.

Yeah that's a pretty obvious paradox, unless Gwen is really willing to sacrifice her existence for her people.

Nothing says she has to vanish. Yesterday's Enterprise Tasha didn't vanish when she went back in time.