Spoilers Star Trek Picard Season 2 Hopes and Predictions

[fireproof78]

I have problems with rating BoBW high, because Part 2 was such an anticlimax.

Doesn't change how it is regarded in the community. In my opinion it is one of the lesser TNG outings because of the hype and the Borg.

Who was the villain? Species 8472 were the primary antagonists of the two parter, and they were de-personified monsters at this point. Not even one of my favorite Voyager episodes though.

They took on more of a persona as the two parter went on and 8472 was definitely a villain, not just antagonistic towards the heroes.

Now this episode I like, and Gul Madred is a truly menacing figure. That said, the story is arguably "man versus himself" rather than "man versus man." Gul Madred is not defeated except insofar as Picard doesn't break. The tension ultimately is the internal tension within Jean Luc.

I disagree with this read entirely but that's just my view. Madred is definitely defeated, at least to me.

IMHO the Romulan Commander, while an antagonist, is not a villain. The writing shows him as "noble" in his way, and it makes clear that he would have preferred to meet Kirk under other circumstances. He's not a bad guy, he's just on the other side of war.

I guess so, but that doesn't make him less of a villain in the course of the episode, even if he is a reluctant one at that. Again, the beauty of Trek is the ability to have villains and invariably have the potential of making the allies, at the very least.

It's not a requirement, per se, but it isn't a bad thing with Trek either.

 

[Precious Tritium]

While Q is an antagonist, I have a hard time seeing him as a straight-up villain. Wait...was there some Romulan in the episode too? I can't really remember.

Tomalak was indeed in the episode. The late, great Andreas Katsulas! He was more of a cameo but a charming one nonetheless.

As for the rest of your points, I feel these episodes undoubtedly all had antagonistic forces in them, which I thought was the original point being made. Whether or not they fit the archetypal villain role seems irrelevant.

All Good Things wouldn't be half as entertaining or memorable for me if it didn't have Q being an insufferable dickbag for the majority of it. Whether or not the Romulan Commander is noble doesn't change the fact that he works as a dangerous foil for Kirk.

 

[fireproof78]

As for the rest of your points, I feel these episodes undoubtedly all had antagonistic forces in them, which I thought was the original point being made. Whether or not they fit the archetypal villain role seems irrelevant.

Here's my thing and why Trek works for me. Trek doesn't always bend to the archetypes. It is not always "good vs. evil" (thus distinguishing from SW greatly) and allows for characters to become better, to "evolve" to borrow TNG phrasing. Kor probably wasn't set up to a bit of a foil but he is portrayed heavily in a villain archetype. Except, instead of being defeated there is this narrative opening created for him to become an ally.

That's why I think villains in Trek are not often considered as such, but they serve that role in the story, only to become much more in later stories.

 

[Anduinel]

I thought Narek was at his most interesting right at the very end of the season, when he was actually interacting with the rest of the cast and coming across as morally ambiguous rather than second-rate evil. If he'd been allowed more of that from early on, instead of being trapped in Artefact purgatory with Narissa and Soji, the character might have been redeemable. As it is, the show is better off without either the siblings - and I'm pretty sure the showrunners have said that neither is coming back.

I hope the writers strike a better balance with the characters in season two.

I do think we'd have had a stronger antagonist if they'd combined Narek and Narissa's roles into a single character, ditched the discount Lannister vibes, and just given us a Zhat Vash true believer who did terrible things in the name of their cause, but developed feelings for Soji despite their convictions.

 

[eschaton]

Tomalak was indeed in the episode. The late, great Andreas Katsulas! He was more of a cameo but a charming one nonetheless.

As for the rest of your points, I feel these episodes undoubtedly all had antagonistic forces in them, which I thought was the original point being made. Whether or not they fit the archetypal villain role seems irrelevant.

All Good Things wouldn't be half as entertaining or memorable for me if it didn't have Q being an insufferable dickbag for the majority of it. Whether or not the Romulan Commander is noble doesn't change the fact that he works as a dangerous foil for Kirk.

My original point was Trek doesn't require antagonists to create excellent episodes. Indeed, most of my favorite episodes of Trek lack identifiable antagonists. But of course not all antagonists are villains. Someone like Nechayev was clearly intended as a dramatic antagonist - going in and creating conflict with the established cast. Even when the conflict was more open, generally speaking the antagonist was shown not as someone who wanted to "do evil" so much as someone who had their own goals which came into conflict with the mission the crew set out on.

But this is is a place where Picard (and Discovery, TBH) have fallen down quite a bit. They have had shitty antagonists which come across more as cliched villains than has typically been the case in TV Trek. I make the TV Trek qualifier because movie Trek has been in this rut forever, due to attempting to recreate TWOK. Sybok was the last non-villain antagonist, and Chang was the last villain who was actually portrayed with any significant nuance.

 

[fireproof78]

My original point was Trek doesn't require antagonists to create excellent episodes.

I won't argue with that.

I simply prefer them.

 

[Jeff]

I think Narissa's broken, smashed, and dead body can be found at the bottom of the Borg cube, so we won't be seeing her ever again

There's about 50-50 chance for Narek to appear in future Picard episodes, but I tend to think we haven't seen the last of him yet....

From what I heard, there was a scene in the season finale where he was handed over to Federation custody, but was deleted. According to SPS, he is not part of the cast for S2 and is not expected to return.

 

[eschaton]

From what I heard, there was a scene in the season finale where he was handed over to Federation custody, but was deleted. According to SPS, he is not part of the cast for S2 and is not expected to return.

I kinda feel like Harry Traadaway was done wrong by Picard. I've found him a talented actor in other things. They just didn't give him much of anything to work with this season.

 

[Lord Garth]

1. Given what happened to Picard, I'm going to assume the second season will deal with the definition of personhood.

2. I think La Serina will be part of the Fenris Rangers.

3. I'd like to see all the ways the Fenris Rangers are differentiated from Starfleet.

4. I want to see more of the relationship between the Federation and the Romulan Free State. I expect what happened with Oh infiltrating Starfleet will be a major point of friction.

5. I hope Raffi makes some progress in trying to reach out to her son or anyone else in her family.

6. I hope that it's explained that Jurati killing Maddox was Oh-influenced and that she wasn't in control of her actions.

7. They dodged any mention of Beverly Crusher during the first season. Everyone else from TNG was referenced, so she's conspicuous by her lack of mention. There's a story there. I wonder how much of the "All Good Things" version of the future came to pass (or not) in this regard, and I hope they show it.

8. I hope they show what Soji wants to do with her life and how she comes to terms with the fact that the entire first three years of her existence was a lie.

9. Just because Starfleet lifted the ban on Synths, doesn't mean Picard and Starfleet are on the same page again. I'd like to see how they drift further and further apart.

10. If there's a drift, I hope this potentially complicates things for Riker or Janeway (or whoever else) if they want to help Picard but they're hands are tied or if they don't know how much they can agree with him.

11. Yes, I'll be more surprised than not if we don't see Janeway at some point. Maybe not Season 2, but somewhere down the line.

12. The story with the Zhat Vash isn't done.

13. Neither are the Borg or Ex-Bs.

 

[Kzinti]

i just want more seven and less of ''chabon mysticism'' eg:the golem stuff and please stop wasting the amazing cast and do something worthwhile with them

 

[Danja]

i just want more seven and less of ''chabon mysticism'' eg:the golem stuff and please stop wasting the amazing cast and do something worthwhile with them

Chabon is out as showrunner (Terry Matalas is now in charge).

 

[Saul]

I hope they retool the show and undo and drop some of the stuff and characters from season 1. I want Hugh to be revived by his dormant Borg nanites and join the crew as a regular. I want the Borg to become a problem. I want Geordi to show up on the USS Challenger for a few episodes.

 

[Kzinti]

Hugh

i'm still upset about that it was such a terrible pointless scene such a good actor wasted on nothing

edit: man i thought i was over being highly disappointed by picard but i guess I'm not

 

[Anduinel]

i'm still upset about that it was such a terrible pointless scene such a good actor wasted on nothing

edit: man i thought i was over being highly disappointed by picard but i guess I'm not

Picard is a weird show for me, ngl. I feel like I either love most of the choices the creatives made or absolutely hate them, very little middle ground.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I'm still waiting for Picard to bust out those Bullet Time powers he learned in Insurrection.

 

[Yistaan]

i'm still upset about that it was such a terrible pointless scene such a good actor wasted on nothing

edit: man i thought i was over being highly disappointed by picard but i guess I'm not

Wait till we all see Season 2.

Picard: I'm sorry you had to hear what happened to Hugh, I know he was your friend.

Geordi: Who?

 

[fireproof78]

i just want more seven and less of ''chabon mysticism'' eg:the golem stuff and please stop wasting the amazing cast and do something worthwhile with them

Wish granted.

Not sure about the rest in terms of worthwhile.

 

[NCC-73515]

I'm still waiting for Picard to bust out those Bullet Time powers he learned in Insurrection.

It's about time they go back to Ba'ku

 

[Danja]

I want the Borg to become a problem.

Stewart doesn't want to keep retelling the same Borg stories over and over again. (He's been there and done that. He did it for four seasons and four feature films.)

I want Geordi to show up on the USS Challenger for a few episodes.

The last spaceship to bear the name Challenger went down with all hands in 1986:

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You'd no more name a ship "Challenger" than you'd name it "Titanic" (too much bad juju ).

 

[Lord Garth]

Stewart doesn't want to keep retelling the same Borg stories over and over again. (He's been there and done that. He did it for four seasons and four feature films.)

Agreed. And on top of that, an additional five seasons on Voyager.

People think we'd get the next "The Best of Both Worlds". We wouldn't. It would be the next "Descent", "Dark Frontier", or "Endgame".

It's the same as when those people thought they wanted the 24th Century back. Then it was back. Then we found out what it really was: they didn't actually want the 24th Century back, they just wanted the '90s back.