Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x05 - "Imposters"

[fireproof78]

Well, fan service is fan service no matter what you call it, but there is fan service that is poorly done and fan service that can be masterfully done.

What is an example of "masterfully done?"

 

[Drunk Superman]

What is an example of "masterfully done?"

You have an elderly Admiral played by Dee Kelley showing up in “Encounter At Farpoint” vs Scotty played by Jimmy Doohan showing up in “Relics”.

 

[fireproof78]

You have an elderly Admiral played by Dee Kelley showing up in “Encounter At Farpoint” vs Scotty played by Jimmy Doohan showing up in “Relics”.

To clarify, those are masterfully done?

 

[Drunk Superman]

To clarify, those are masterfully done?

One is. One isn’t.

 

[fireproof78]

One is. One isn’t.

I will take your word for it.

 

[Drunk Superman]

I will take your word for it.

The one in Farpoint is subtle. Dee’s in old age make up, No calls him “McCoy”, He doesn’t like transporters and makes a comment about “pointed ears”. So viewers in the know can connect the dots and figure out who he is. For the rest it’s just a case of “Who’s that little old man?” Scotty showing up, (and Sarek and Spock) has much more fanfare. “Sarek” is a fine episode. “Unification” a middling one. As is “Relics”.

 

[Sci]

The real question is why would he know? Being an admiral doesn't make you magically omniscient.

I find it implausible that one of the most powerful, important admirals in all of Starfleet wouldn't at some point learn that one of his former closest officers, whom he spent years mentoring, had rejoined Starfleet. If nothing else, that seems like the sort of thing that would inspire someone to tell him out of personal loyalty.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

It's a joke from South Park that was funny in the episode it was introduced in, but hasn't been since.

I suppose it would stop being relevant if it wasn't still relevant due to it happening so much.
Is there a better explanation for Burnham being Spocks sister than "memberberries" for instance.
Let's not pretend it's not why every ship is now the something "A" or MK III

 

[fireproof78]

Is there a better explanation for Burnham being Spocks sister than "memberberries" for instance.

There is a lot of potential for that story, especially given the way Sarek and Spock's reaction to their relationship in TOS vs. his relationship Burnham.

 

[GhoulEddie74]

They gave us Sybok in 1989 and they're bringing him back in SNW so it seems Spock's secret siblings are just a thing in Trek since the Eighties. And if anything it's shown that Sarek is a pretty lousy parent to all of his three kids, just in different ways.

 

[mswood]

It could be. Although that would be a major frigging inconsistency that lasted decades. Hopefully, there's actually a logical plot point behind it.

There is no inconsistency about it. You're comparing situations that are apples to oranges, for a valid comparison the situations need to be identical.

With her initial choice to keep Picard out of Jack's life there are two massive differences. One is Jack was an infant (typically the most vulnerable state outside of the very end of life), and Picard was an active Starfleet Captain dealing with the myriad missions that would happen and still a very visible symbol of current starfleet. He is now a retired, Admiral who hasn't been in active starship duty for decades. With the establishment of starfleet moving in a very public way against the attitudes and interest of Picard.

At some point later in life she either informs Jack of his father, or gives the ok to seek him out (I don't remember which), and then at some point 5 years earlier Jack seeks him out. We don't have any scripted data to know if this was right after Beverly gave him the ok (or the knowledge of who his father is) for if its at a later date,

So the situations of Jack's vulnerability is significantly different, and Picard status in Starfleet and the larger political situations had dramatically changed.

Thus since the situations are dramatically there can be no inconsistencies for comparisons.

 

[Yistaan]

I find it implausible that one of the most powerful, important admirals in all of Starfleet wouldn't at some point learn that one of his former closest officers, whom he spent years mentoring, had rejoined Starfleet. If nothing else, that seems like the sort of thing that would inspire someone to tell him out of personal loyalty.

Actually if it's well known how much Picard despised Ro for her defection (and going by Shaw's lines it seems people very much do gossip about Picard), I can see the opposite, people actually going out of their way to keep her re-entry into Starfleet from him.

 

[Drunk Superman]

They gave us Sybok in 1989 and they're bringing him back in SNW so it seems Spock's secret siblings are just a thing in Trek since the Eighties. And if anything it's shown that Sarek is a pretty lousy parent to all of his three kids, just in different ways.

And the five we don’t know about.

 

[GhoulEddie74]

The Vulcan Science Academy had some bitchin' parties.

 

[Sci]

Actually if it's well known how much Picard despised Ro for her defection (and going by Shaw's lines it seems people very much do gossip about Picard), I can see the opposite, people actually going out of their way to keep her re-entry into Starfleet from him.

There's no way somebody wouldn't tell him. He has too many allies within Starfleet, even with his falling out.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

They gave us Sybok in 1989 and they're bringing him back in SNW so it seems Spock's secret siblings are just a thing in Trek since the Eighties. And if anything it's shown that Sarek is a pretty lousy parent to all of his three kids, just in different ways.

I watched that a few days ago and it's funny how many of the criticisms of current shows are to be found in it.
Dark tones, Bladerunner/Mad Maxx style settings, surprise family members, phaser machine guns, Federation officials smoking fags.

Like the modern shows it's also not as bad as made out (except no need for surprise family members)

 

[Yistaan]

There's no way somebody wouldn't tell him. He has too many allies within Starfleet, even with his falling out.

Why? Starfleet is a military organization. And Ro was assigned to spywork in Starfleet Intelligence. Unless Picard has a reason to know, there's no reason for anyone to tell him and doing so might in fact compromise whatever spy mission Ro is on.

 

[jaime]

I find it implausible that one of the most powerful, important admirals in all of Starfleet wouldn't at some point learn that one of his former closest officers, whom he spent years mentoring, had rejoined Starfleet. If nothing else, that seems like the sort of thing that would inspire someone to tell him out of personal loyalty.

Which would be true. If Laren wasn’t SI.

 

[jaime]

I watched that a few days ago and it's funny how many of the criticisms of current shows are to be found in it.
Dark tones, Bladerunner/Mad Maxx style settings, surprise family members, phaser machine guns, Federation officials smoking fags.

Like the modern shows it's also not as bad as made out (except no need for surprise family members)

Point of order — for some reason the phaser machine gun is on Nimbus three and therefore probably not a phaser.
Also Trek V is not only not as bad as made out, it’s actually much better than made out, and the problem — said ever — is executive meddling, time, and money.

 

[fireproof78]

They gave us Sybok in 1989 and they're bringing him back in SNW so it seems Spock's secret siblings are just a thing in Trek since the Eighties. And if anything it's shown that Sarek is a pretty lousy parent to all of his three kids, just in different ways.

Which is an interesting story to tell and one worth exploring. Spock is held up as "Mr. Star Trek" at times, the iconic character of the franchise and sometimes a person to emulate. Except, Sarek actually messed up pretty good, and his childhood was not a good one, even by human standards. What makes Spock different is very well informed by exploring Sarek and his children as characters.

it’s actually much better than made out, and the problem — said ever — is executive meddling, time, and money.

And Shatner's ego.