Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x05 - "Imposters"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Commander Richard, Mar 15, 2023.

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Engage!

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  1. Noname Given

    Noname Given Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    What makes you think of Jean-Luc Picard was a powerful Admiral? He obviously reveled in his own notoriety; and certainly thought more of himself than the admiralty did. I mean in Picard season 1 he's shown as utterly shocked when the admiralty calls him on his threat to retire, and basically says... "Okay that's fine. We'll accept your resignation.."
    ^^^
    Jean-Luc Picard honestly thought that such a threat would be a trump card. He could never imagine the admiralty allowing him to leave...until they did so, and that really burst his overinflated ego.

    I mean if he really did care about helping the romulans relocate; after he resigned, you'd think he'd still use whatever pull he had to do whatever he could as a civilian. But no as soon as that happened he retreated to his Vineyard and just started making and selling his wine.

    He was nothing but a show Pony for Starfleet recruitment over the years. The real Starfleet Admirals were working on keeping the Federation Alliance intact.
     
  2. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

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    He should have paid more attention to his Spacebook notifications.
     
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  3. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Arguably The Best Poster Named cooleddie Moderator

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    Even Kirk as an Admiral who'd just saved Earth couldn't save himself from a trial in front of the Federation Council and being demoted by none other than the President of the Federation. If James T. Kirk couldn't get lavish brownnosing and be let off the hook for being an ass in pursuit of his own ends then Picard wouldn't have been untouchable or overly revered within Starfleet Command.
     
  4. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Being demoted to Captain was not a punishment.
    It was a loophole the upper brass of Starfleet exploited to serve justice and reward him for saving Earth… again!
     
  5. Sci

    Sci Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not arguing he would have been untouchable. But we know from literally all of TNG that he's a very influential leader in Starfleet who has friends at all levels of command. He was powerful enough to shut down Admiral Satie, for instance, and to hold onto the same command crew for 15 years. And he was famous enough that FNN treated him as the public face of Starfleet after the Mars Attack.

    So to me, given his extreme level of informal influence within Starfleet, I just can't buy the idea that someone didn't call him up somewhere along the line and say, "Lisen, Jean-Luc, you didn't hear this from me, but you deserve to know: Ro Laren is back in from the cold."
     
  6. Search4

    Search4 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I have standing google searches on my kids. It’s not reasonable that the same type of thing wouldn’t be used by Picard to track people important to him. Crusher - Ro - various Admirals and other peers - academy friends … he certainly COULD have known about Ro. Presumably he just didn’t want to.
     
  7. jaime

    jaime Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I’m willing to give Shatner a pass this time — the core concepts and ideas, and any bit of the movie that wasn’t impacted by the other things I mentioned, or the FX situation, is pretty good. One of the best openings in a Trek Movie ever tbh, and pretty decent SF in general. The money and luck runs out as it goes on, until they’re on fumes by the end. He clearly would have been a decent director, and his ego is no worse than Nimoy in that regard — who reminded him and suggested he take the chair in the first place. By all accounts, even from people who usually don’t have much kimd to say about him, he was a good director.
    As with other Treks as well, some of the good stuff is on the cutting room floor.
     
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  8. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It has its moments but I still put a lot on Shatner because a lot of I have is with the script.
     
  9. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't think Picard not knowing Ro was back in Starfleet was any worse than Kirk having no idea that the Vulcan Ambassador and his human wife who just beamed up were actually Spock's parents until Spock spilled the beans. Spock: his subordinate about whom Kirk would have had a personnel file. The same subordinate who actually came out and said "my mother was a teacher, my father an ambassador" about a year earlier. Oh and the same subordinate who constantly reminded everyone he had a Vulcan/Human set of parents.

    So yeah, no problem with Picard not knowing the whereabouts of someone he briefly worked with 30 ish years earlier and had no contact with since.
     
  10. Ovation

    Ovation Admiral Admiral

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    Even Takei, his most bestest friend evah ;) has acknowledged Shatner’s skill and professionalism as a director. And, in terms of visual composition, he was miles ahead of Nimoy.
     
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  11. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

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    If Ro was reinstated during Picard's vineyard years, it's plausible that it would have flown under his radar. He was very much out of the Starfleet loop in that period. Once he was back, he was a chancellor at the Academy, which was likely an honorary position. He wouldn't necessarily have been up on who was working in Starfleet Intelligence.

    Very clean, though, inn't he?
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2023
  12. Yistaan

    Yistaan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm curious, since you seem very certain this happened, name any Trek character, and link their memory alpha article, who'd realistically have done this. Hayes? Nechayev? Janeway? Commodore La Forge? Raffi? Attributing this to some unseen character seems like a cop-out, we've seen a lot of friends of Picard in Starfleet just within on-screen canon itself, so if it's as likely as you say it is then there should be no problem naming someone who plausibly did this and not have it feel out of character. I can't name any such person, and as such conclude there isn't any one who actually did this.

    I can't even see any of the Lower Decks characters (that I recall before I quit the show) doing this, which says a lot given how much implausible stuff happens in LD. That's not even taking into account that the officers who know both Ro and Picard well and what went down between them can probably be counted on one, maybe two hands.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2023
  13. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, that's a nice rationalization for it. But it sounds like the "discrepancy" becomes an actual plot point. We shall see!
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2023
  14. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well put. People rarely behave in a perfectly rational point of view. Beverly would no doubt be struggling with a lot of fear of losing Jack. It's actually a common theme I've seen in a couple of Trek books that I like.
     
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  15. Jedi Marso

    Jedi Marso Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    After 20, 30, 40 years, some things just fade in importance. I've totally experienced it IRL.
     
  16. Jedi Marso

    Jedi Marso Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I have no examples to offer, merely postulate that there are always....possibilities... :vulcan:
     
  17. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think there was something weird with the script though. Only vaguely recalling but wasn't the original script scrapped and a new one hastily rewritten? Apparently, the original script was much better. Some sort of shenanigans at least that was out of Shatner's control.
     
  18. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Ah...always in motion the future.
    I can't recall but my biggest issue is the building up of Kirk over others, and that Shatner tried for a serious drama about finding God, only to find the devil, while the studio wanted a TVH style comedy and Shatner said "we can do both!"
     
  19. Gilora

    Gilora Commander Red Shirt

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    I heard the Seven voice in S3E1 when she was commanding the Titan out of spacedock and said, "You may clear all moorings."
     
  20. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I didn't care for the movie all for many of the same reasons you mention. I don't know what the original script would've looked like or if it would've been any better. But what we got was bad.
     
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