Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x05 - "Imposters"

[Noname Given]

I find it implausible that one of the most powerful, important admirals in all of Starfleet wouldn't at some point learn that one of his former closest officers, whom he spent years mentoring, had rejoined Starfleet. If nothing else, that seems like the sort of thing that would inspire someone to tell him out of personal loyalty.

What makes you think of Jean-Luc Picard was a powerful Admiral? He obviously reveled in his own notoriety; and certainly thought more of himself than the admiralty did. I mean in Picard season 1 he's shown as utterly shocked when the admiralty calls him on his threat to retire, and basically says... "Okay that's fine. We'll accept your resignation.."
^^^
Jean-Luc Picard honestly thought that such a threat would be a trump card. He could never imagine the admiralty allowing him to leave...until they did so, and that really burst his overinflated ego.

I mean if he really did care about helping the romulans relocate; after he resigned, you'd think he'd still use whatever pull he had to do whatever he could as a civilian. But no as soon as that happened he retreated to his Vineyard and just started making and selling his wine.

He was nothing but a show Pony for Starfleet recruitment over the years. The real Starfleet Admirals were working on keeping the Federation Alliance intact.

 

[Nerys Myk]

He should have paid more attention to his Spacebook notifications.

 

[cooleddie74]

Even Kirk as an Admiral who'd just saved Earth couldn't save himself from a trial in front of the Federation Council and being demoted by none other than the President of the Federation. If James T. Kirk couldn't get lavish brownnosing and be let off the hook for being an ass in pursuit of his own ends then Picard wouldn't have been untouchable or overly revered within Starfleet Command.

 

[Timelord Victorious]

Even Kirk as an Admiral who'd just saved Earth couldn't save himself from a trial in front of the Federation Council and being demoted by none other than the President of the Federation. If James T. Kirk couldn't get lavish brownnosing and be let off the hook for being an ass in pursuit of his own ends then Picard wouldn't have been untouchable or overly revered within Starfleet Command.

Being demoted to Captain was not a punishment.
It was a loophole the upper brass of Starfleet exploited to serve justice and reward him for saving Earth… again!

 

[Sci]

Why? Starfleet is a military organization. And Ro was assigned to spywork in Starfleet Intelligence. Unless Picard has a reason to know, there's no reason for anyone to tell him and doing so might in fact compromise whatever spy mission Ro is on.

Even Kirk as an Admiral who'd just saved Earth couldn't save himself from a trial in front of the Federation Council and being demoted by none other than the President of the Federation. If James T. Kirk couldn't get lavish brownnosing and be let off the hook for being an ass in pursuit of his own ends then Picard wouldn't have been untouchable or overly revered within Starfleet Command.

I'm not arguing he would have been untouchable. But we know from literally all of TNG that he's a very influential leader in Starfleet who has friends at all levels of command. He was powerful enough to shut down Admiral Satie, for instance, and to hold onto the same command crew for 15 years. And he was famous enough that FNN treated him as the public face of Starfleet after the Mars Attack.

So to me, given his extreme level of informal influence within Starfleet, I just can't buy the idea that someone didn't call him up somewhere along the line and say, "Lisen, Jean-Luc, you didn't hear this from me, but you deserve to know: Ro Laren is back in from the cold."

 

[Search4]

I'm not arguing he would have been untouchable. But we know from literally all of TNG that he's a very influential leader in Starfleet who has friends at all levels of command. He was powerful enough to shut down Admiral Satie, for instance, and to hold onto the same command crew for 15 years. And he was famous enough that FNN treated him as the public face of Starfleet after the Mars Attack.

So to me, given his extreme level of informal influence within Starfleet, I just can't buy the idea that someone didn't call him up somewhere along the line and say, "Lisen, Jean-Luc, you didn't hear this from me, but you deserve to know: Ro Laren is back in from the cold."

I have standing google searches on my kids. It’s not reasonable that the same type of thing wouldn’t be used by Picard to track people important to him. Crusher - Ro - various Admirals and other peers - academy friends … he certainly COULD have known about Ro. Presumably he just didn’t want to.

 

[jaime]

Which is an interesting story to tell and one worth exploring. Spock is held up as "Mr. Star Trek" at times, the iconic character of the franchise and sometimes a person to emulate. Except, Sarek actually messed up pretty good, and his childhood was not a good one, even by human standards. What makes Spock different is very well informed by exploring Sarek and his children as characters.

And Shatner's ego.

I’m willing to give Shatner a pass this time — the core concepts and ideas, and any bit of the movie that wasn’t impacted by the other things I mentioned, or the FX situation, is pretty good. One of the best openings in a Trek Movie ever tbh, and pretty decent SF in general. The money and luck runs out as it goes on, until they’re on fumes by the end. He clearly would have been a decent director, and his ego is no worse than Nimoy in that regard — who reminded him and suggested he take the chair in the first place. By all accounts, even from people who usually don’t have much kimd to say about him, he was a good director.
As with other Treks as well, some of the good stuff is on the cutting room floor.

 

[fireproof78]

I’m willing to give Shatner a pass this time —

It has its moments but I still put a lot on Shatner because a lot of I have is with the script.

 

[Ssosmcin]

I don't think Picard not knowing Ro was back in Starfleet was any worse than Kirk having no idea that the Vulcan Ambassador and his human wife who just beamed up were actually Spock's parents until Spock spilled the beans. Spock: his subordinate about whom Kirk would have had a personnel file. The same subordinate who actually came out and said "my mother was a teacher, my father an ambassador" about a year earlier. Oh and the same subordinate who constantly reminded everyone he had a Vulcan/Human set of parents.

So yeah, no problem with Picard not knowing the whereabouts of someone he briefly worked with 30 ish years earlier and had no contact with since.

 

[Ovation]

I’m willing to give Shatner a pass this time — the core concepts and ideas, and any bit of the movie that wasn’t impacted by the other things I mentioned, or the FX situation, is pretty good. One of the best openings in a Trek Movie ever tbh, and pretty decent SF in general. The money and luck runs out as it goes on, until they’re on fumes by the end. He clearly would have been a decent director, and his ego is no worse than Nimoy in that regard — who reminded him and suggested he take the chair in the first place. By all accounts, even from people who usually don’t have much kimd to say about him, he was a good director.
As with other Treks as well, some of the good stuff is on the cutting room floor.

Even Takei, his most bestest friend evah has acknowledged Shatner’s skill and professionalism as a director. And, in terms of visual composition, he was miles ahead of Nimoy.

 

[The Old Mixer]

If Ro was reinstated during Picard's vineyard years, it's plausible that it would have flown under his radar. He was very much out of the Starfleet loop in that period. Once he was back, he was a chancellor at the Academy, which was likely an honorary position. He wouldn't necessarily have been up on who was working in Starfleet Intelligence.

The one in Farpoint is subtle. Dee’s in old age make up, No calls him “McCoy”, He doesn’t like transporters and makes a comment about “pointed ears”. So viewers in the know can connect the dots and figure out who he is. For the rest it’s just a case of “Who’s that little old man?”

Very clean, though, inn't he?

 

[Yistaan]

So to me, given his extreme level of informal influence within Starfleet, I just can't buy the idea that someone didn't call him up somewhere along the line and say, "Lisen, Jean-Luc, you didn't hear this from me, but you deserve to know: Ro Laren is back in from the cold."

I'm curious, since you seem very certain this happened, name any Trek character, and link their memory alpha article, who'd realistically have done this. Hayes? Nechayev? Janeway? Commodore La Forge? Raffi? Attributing this to some unseen character seems like a cop-out, we've seen a lot of friends of Picard in Starfleet just within on-screen canon itself, so if it's as likely as you say it is then there should be no problem naming someone who plausibly did this and not have it feel out of character. I can't name any such person, and as such conclude there isn't any one who actually did this.

I can't even see any of the Lower Decks characters (that I recall before I quit the show) doing this, which says a lot given how much implausible stuff happens in LD. That's not even taking into account that the officers who know both Ro and Picard well and what went down between them can probably be counted on one, maybe two hands.

 

[Mr Awe]

There is no inconsistency about it.

Well, that's a nice rationalization for it. But it sounds like the "discrepancy" becomes an actual plot point. We shall see!

 

[fireproof78]

There is no inconsistency about it. You're comparing situations that are apples to oranges, for a valid comparison the situations need to be identical.

With her initial choice to keep Picard out of Jack's life there are two massive differences. One is Jack was an infant (typically the most vulnerable state outside of the very end of life), and Picard was an active Starfleet Captain dealing with the myriad missions that would happen and still a very visible symbol of current starfleet. He is now a retired, Admiral who hasn't been in active starship duty for decades. With the establishment of starfleet moving in a very public way against the attitudes and interest of Picard.

At some point later in life she either informs Jack of his father, or gives the ok to seek him out (I don't remember which), and then at some point 5 years earlier Jack seeks him out. We don't have any scripted data to know if this was right after Beverly gave him the ok (or the knowledge of who his father is) for if its at a later date,

So the situations of Jack's vulnerability is significantly different, and Picard status in Starfleet and the larger political situations had dramatically changed.

Thus since the situations are dramatically there can be no inconsistencies for comparisons.

Well put. People rarely behave in a perfectly rational point of view. Beverly would no doubt be struggling with a lot of fear of losing Jack. It's actually a common theme I've seen in a couple of Trek books that I like.

 

[Jedi Marso]

I find it implausible that one of the most powerful, important admirals in all of Starfleet wouldn't at some point learn that one of his former closest officers, whom he spent years mentoring, had rejoined Starfleet. If nothing else, that seems like the sort of thing that would inspire someone to tell him out of personal loyalty.

After 20, 30, 40 years, some things just fade in importance. I've totally experienced it IRL.

 

[Jedi Marso]

What is an example of "masterfully done?"

I have no examples to offer, merely postulate that there are always....possibilities...

 

[Mr Awe]

It has its moments but I still put a lot on Shatner because a lot of I have is with the script.

I think there was something weird with the script though. Only vaguely recalling but wasn't the original script scrapped and a new one hastily rewritten? Apparently, the original script was much better. Some sort of shenanigans at least that was out of Shatner's control.

 

[fireproof78]

I have no examples to offer, merely postulate that there are always....possibilities...

Ah...always in motion the future.

I think there was something weird with the script though. Only vaguely recalling but wasn't the original script scrapped and a new one hastily rewritten? Apparently, the original script was much better. Some sort of shenanigans at least that was out of Shatner's control.

I can't recall but my biggest issue is the building up of Kirk over others, and that Shatner tried for a serious drama about finding God, only to find the devil, while the studio wanted a TVH style comedy and Shatner said "we can do both!"

 

[Gilora]

I feel like Jeri has finally been allowed to use "Seven voice" this season consistently. In Season 1 they directed her explicitly to not use the voice, and she only slipped into it occasionally in Season 2.

I heard the Seven voice in S3E1 when she was commanding the Titan out of spacedock and said, "You may clear all moorings."

 

[Mr Awe]

Ah...always in motion the future.

I can't recall but my biggest issue is the building up of Kirk over others, and that Shatner tried for a serious drama about finding God, only to find the devil, while the studio wanted a TVH style comedy and Shatner said "we can do both!"

I didn't care for the movie all for many of the same reasons you mention. I don't know what the original script would've looked like or if it would've been any better. But what we got was bad.