Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Commander Richard, Mar 15, 2023.
Some? Yes, of course.
He was actively praising an organization to those young people that at the time he felt betrayed him. That is not logical. Even if he was doing it just to give the cadets a feel-good moment, in context he should have felt ashamed for lying to them. But again, that wasn’t the context of the scene. The context was that the events of season one were being ignored or forgotten.
No, it's not. But it is extremely human.
Not 5 years ago he didn't.
Two years before 2401, he was feeling betrayed that the Federation didn’t help the Romulans in 2386. So between 2386 and 2399, he most certainly was not happy with Starfleet. He was in that bar talking to those cadets during that span of time.
He was talking about Starfleet on a personal level, working with your shipmates to overcome obstacles and winning / loosing together.
Its the Starfleet Picard remembers and loved which is was talking about, not Starfleet the bureaucracy.
I'd bet that even in the years where he felt Starfleet betrayed him and the Romulan people in their time of need he would have done anything to help any member of his old crew.
I think this is something Trek solved for itself without even meaning to, by introducing the concept of 'Command School' in TWOK. Basically, a graduate course at starfleet academy that officers can return to and take to be considered 'qualified' to be considered in line of command of a starship. It would explain why a red shirt like Scotty could take the center seat and command the ship while Kirk and Spock are gone, or why Spock as a blue-shirt is considered qualified for command. It opens the command path to an officer of any specialty who is willing to take it as a post-graduate specialty, as Deanna did.
And it's good for drama, too, because it opens the center seat to characters who wouldn't normally get a crack at it.
Most of that scene could still have fit given season 1 except the last line "Starfleet was the only family I ever needed!" (After all, Picard probably has no issues telling old stories to cadets) That last line was literally shoehorned in to add angst to Picard and Jack. Realistically Picard would have said that he tried to have a family, none of his romances worked out, and that would be that.
And yet saying “Starfleet is the only family I ever needed” was specifically meant to make Jack brush off telling Picard who he was. It almost makes Picard look kind of like an ass (which is a different subject from what we’re talking about here, though.)
Picard’s feeling about the bureaucracy vs his history wasn’t the point of the context of the scene. So it’s still awkward in the large scheme of things.
Exactly so. Despite Picard's frustration with the leadership, he still has positive memories around Starfleet and his crew. Both things can be true at the same time, while unintentionally communicating and entirely different message to Jack, which Picard could not possible know.
I think it makes perfect sense in context.
Fortunately, the actual plot and characterization have been excellent this season. I certainly don't feel manipulated. Sorry you feel that way.
Well all I have to say is that if my old job pissed me off royally and betrayed me, I would not act so positive toward it to someone who wanted to work there, no matter whether I had some good times there in the past or not.
When the season is done I will pass judgement. Until then, I remain decidedly cautiously optimistic.
But, ten years in retail soured me on marketing. Watching movie trailers with friends soured me on marketing. I cannot stand marketing, advertising or pandering to my fan senses. Hate it. Tell me it's a good story first and foremost.
I'm the opposite. There's no reason for me to piss all over someone's aspirations because of my personal animosity.
Have done it before. Probably will do it again.
In season one Picard goes to Starfleet and ex-Starfleet for help. First Raffi and then Riker. So he’s not totally anti-Starfleet. Doesn’t he also have some Starfleet mementos at his home?
I definitely understand wait to pass judgement until the season ends. At first, I was dreading a drop in quality. But I've been feeling cautiously optimistic for a while. I've really been enjoying it. But we'll see. They have to stick the landing.
I try not to pay much attention to the marketing. They'll try to sell it a particular way but in the end it all comes down to how it works for you--not them. So, they amped up the nostalgia for sure. If that's all they delivered with a poorly told story, I'd have been disappointed. But, so far, the story has been great.
And truth be told, if this was basically the same story but with different characters, or maybe not even set in the ST universe, I'd still be enjoying it quite a bit.
YMMV of course.
I generally ignore marketing. For I think painfully obvious reasons now. The story has been ok. It has had it's good moments, and I like how they are presenting the characters so far. But, well, the things that I find interesting are not the nostalgia things. So...yeah I don't really think I fit with what people are liking thus far.
Agreed. And he knows that he, his crew, and Starfleet overall have all done a lot of good. He might have specific issues with them but overall it has many positives that presumably in his mind out weigh any negatives.
Well, fan service is fan service no matter what you call it, but there is fan service that is poorly done and fan service that can be masterfully done.
The real question is why would he know? Being an admiral doesn't make you magically omniscient. Why then wouldn't he know the name, background, medical history, and education marks of every applicant to starfleet academy every year?
ANS: Because it would be information overload, and irrelevant. He had no reason to assume Ro would ever return to starfleet, therefore it didn't occur to him to try and chase it down.
Separate names with a comma.