Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x04 - "Watcher"

[Trekker4747]

Punk on a bus- I had no idea it was the same actor/character, it has been so long since I've seen STIV. So while I did LOL, his reaction at the end was a total eye-roller for me: "Yup. Another emasculated 'male' meekly caves to his feminist overlords..."

Pretty much stopped here. I'm tired of "men-inists" so easily triggered by strong women. Really, before I realized it was the same guy/actor I thought the joke was more that he, politely, apologized and turned it off rather than what the guy in TVH did. I certainly didn't think he was "cowering to my female overlords."

Now that I know this is supposedly the same guy, I have to ask- why is he still carrying a boom box in 2024?

He's, what, a 60 year old man? He prefers the technology he grew up with. Her enjoys the casette and boom box more than this phone and MP3.

For a bunch of trained starfleet officers attempting to minimize changes to the timeline, their actions are totally out of character. Raffi and Seven don't even make a cursory search for Rios' com-badge,

That to me is odd too. Have we just forgotten about the commbadge?

With a cloaking device, they could have put down anywhere, especially knowing where they needed to go before the time jump.

The cloaking device but was dumb. We were just talking about that last week and assumed it didn't have one... But it did? And they just *now* decide to use it?

Anyway, I'm also tired of 2024. We've all lived through the shit-show of the past few years, and as others have said, if you want to address the issues of this day and age there are a ton of contemporary shows that do it better. Unfortunately, the story here is resolved when the timeline is saved, so I think we might be 'stuck in the past' for the balance of this season, which so far seems to be evolving into an un-inspired redo of STIV without any of the attendant charm.

The problem I kinda have is that in the past Trek tried to do message stories by showing these problem humans face in the real world withbthem happening to aliens. Humans have figured this bout, now we deal with aliens with these issues (and then show more or less doesn't take an obvious right/wrong position.)

"Let This Be Your Last Battlefield" being a case with maybe a less subtle hint on what the "message" is and more clearly taking a side (but racism was the message and there's really only one "right" side to that.) But Classic Trek, Modern Trek have found ways of dealing with issues without being too blunt about it.

Here? It just seems a lot harsher wording being they're in "present day" Earth and showing/saying how much we suck. TNG used that card often in the first couple seasons (talking about how bad 20C humans were) but what's going in here seems like a broader brush.

 

[Tracer Bullet]

If there's not a fixed future at this point where did the La Sirena and crew come from exactly?

I'm not sure what you're asking. Trek has always come up with some hand-wavey bullshit about why time travel doesn't affect the people going back in the past. See First Contact and the Enterprise being protected by the Borg "temporal wake".

Like obviously the answer is "Q did it."

 

[eschaton]

Although like Seven of Nine/Anika (whose Confederation timeline body has no Borg implants because in the changed timeline she was never assimilated by the Borg); in this case Confederation Picard's body should be fully human, has the events depicted in Picard S1 never happened; and while we have characters like Rios referring to the synthetic Picard, that's only because their bodies retain the memories of the original timeline that they're trying to restore.

Nope. Q established in episode 2 Confederation Picard also has a synth body. Presumably he had to, otherwise he would be dead.

 

[Sakonna]

I'm still annoyed they addressed Picard still being in a synthetic body, but haven't addressed that Seven's body and mind would be completely transformed without all the Borg implants.

They either needed to address both of those or neither. Only one doesn't work.

And it's totally unneeded. Picard could have still been alive in his regular body in this timeline. We very clearly saw that it was his actions in "Et In Arcadia Ego" that hastened his death in the regular timeline. They should have just cut that Q line.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Star Trek vs Star Wars is finally going to happen because of some punk on a bus.

I really don't care about the why, just as long as it happens

 

[Yistaan]

Ok after seeing 2024 Guinan radiating an intense attractiveness (that with all due respect to Whoopi, I didn't get that vibe on her take in the character even in the younger TNG days), I think we now know the reason why Picard never got together with anyone else. Guinan knew this the whole time and was messing with Picard in the season premiere with the relationship talk.

 

[JoaquinSlowly]

Yep. I'm surprised at the easy acceptance of the writer's tweet that future timeline changes overwrite the past despite other evidence (specifically Enterprise, First Contact, and Kelvin Timeline) showing otherwise

It wasn’t acceptance of a writer’s tweet for many of us. The writer’s comment was just confirmation of the interpretation we’d already come to from the episode/season’s content alone.

 

[eschaton]

I'm not sure what you're asking. Trek has always come up with some hand-wavey bullshit about why time travel doesn't affect the people going back in the past. See First Contact and the Enterprise being protected by the Borg "temporal wake".

Like obviously the answer is "Q did it."

Regardless, at this point Federation Picard doesnt exist and never has, except as memories inside Confederation Picard's head. So he couldn't have traveled back in time to 1893.

 

[Tracer Bullet]

Nope. Q established in episode 2 Confederation Picard also has a synth body. Presumably he had to, otherwise he would be dead.

You believe Q?

 

[Yistaan]

episode/season’s content alone.

Punk on a Bus. Star Trek 4.

 

[Tracer Bullet]

Regardless, at this point Federation Picard doesnt exist and never has, except as memories inside Confederation Picard's head. So he couldn't have traveled back in time to 1893.

That part I agree with. Makes sense to me.

 

[Hythlodeus]

You believe Q?

has he ever lied to anyone?

 

[Mr Awe]

If there's not a fixed future at this point where did the La Sirena and crew come from exactly?

Assuming Picard and co. prevent the Confederation from existing, where does La Sirena come from?

 

[Tracer Bullet]

has he ever lied to anyone?

All the time!

 

[JoaquinSlowly]

Punk on a Bus. Star Trek 4.

Doesn’t impact my interpretation of the events of the series at all, or confirm anything. It’s a joke/Easter egg/reference, and signifies nothing of the plot, and fails to undermine the temporal mechanics as presented.

 

[Hythlodeus]

All the time!

really? I remember him as someone who withheld information, bended the narrative. but open lies?

 

[Yistaan]

Doesn’t impact my interpretation of the events of the series at all, or confirm anything. It’s a joke/Easter egg/reference, and signifies nothing of the plot, and fails to undermine the temporal mechanics as presented.

At this point, it would be like putting Brent Spiner in and saying he's NOT a Soong. Although given what you just said about the punk on the bus, I would now not be surprised if they did that this season.

 

[eschaton]

You believe Q?

Not entirely. I believe the real POD was caused by destroying the Stargazer rather than waiting to see what the Masked Queen wanted.

 

[eschaton]

Assuming Picard and co. prevent the Confederation from existing, where does La Sirena come from?

Touche, but this is the exact scenario from FC. Timeline changed due to Borg assimilation, Enterprise must go back in time to "fix" it, with the future being Borg if they fail.

 

[Mr Awe]

Touche, but this is the exact scenario from FC. Timeline changed due to Borg assimilation, Enterprise must go back in time to "fix" it, with the future being Borg if they fail.

Looks like we need to pick our poison!