Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x04 - "Watcher"

[DarKush]

Picard doesn't have the technical expertise to fix the ship, Juraty does.

Okay, but I guess him now being an android was a complete waste of a synth body then. It would be nice if he had some new skills or something.

 

[DaveyNY]

Maybe the Continuem stripped Q of his powers again?

... or the group known collectively as the "Supervisors"?
Perhaps they are more powerful than the Q?

 

[Yistaan]

The timeline change has not occurred yet. They made a big point of it happening in 3 days. So, we're in the unaltered past.

By the current rules of time travel stated on twitter by the writers, I'm not even sure 2024 should have modern technology because Voyager stated it was only possible from reverse engineered ship from the future!

 

[Mr Awe]

That’s arguable, they’re already in Confederation bodies, with a Stargazer from the altered future, indicating that the effects of the change are already felt in the future, and that would directly impact any time travel stories to Earth’s past.

Nope, they made a big point of being back BEFORE the timeline changes. That's their ticking clock to fix it. It occurs in 3 days and they're trying to prevent it.

 

[JoaquinSlowly]

The timeline change has not occurred yet. They made a big point of it happening in 3 days. So, we're in the unaltered past.

If the timeline changed hadn’t already impacted the Prime Universe’s history then Picard, Seven, Raffi, Rios, Agnes and Elnor wouldn’t be in alternate bodies with a Confederatation La Sirena. Because the The Confederation’s future history has overwritten their normal history there was no version of Time’s Arrow.

Q already altered the timeline on the 15th, and Picard and co. have gone back to the 12th to now stop that alteration, but it’s already been done, cross-temporally speaking, because the future has already been changed.

The showrunner/writers have confirmed it’s their line of thinking as well.

This Guinan wouldn't remember Picard because in this alternate timeline, the TNG episode Time's Arrow never happened. Because there was no Federation, those events did not play out the same. No previous relationship exists. However, she still was likely traveling to Earth and, as we know, she hung around a bit. So this Guinan is different. But she, of course, can sense something is off. She's going through a kind of time-sickness thanks to Q's meddling with the timeline.

 

[Tuskin38]

The timeline change has not occurred yet. They made a big point of it happening in 3 days. So, we're in the unaltered past.

But the future is altered, we saw it, they saw it, so any time travel events that would have happened, never did.

Guinan never met Picard in the 19th century, because those events never happened.

Nope, they made a big point of being back BEFORE the timeline changes. That's their ticking clock to fix it. It occurs in 3 days and they're trying to prevent it.

They went back in time before the event, but the event already happened in the future.

By the current rules of time travel stated on twitter by the writers, I'm not even sure 2024 should have modern technology because Voyager stated it was only possible from reverse engineered ship from the future!

These are the rules that Yesterday's Enterprise and Past Tense use.

 

[Yistaan]

Pike: So Guinan, a Klingon time crystal told me I'm going to be permanently mutilated if I stay in Starfleet.

Guinan: Ah, don't worry about it. Do you have any idea how many timelines I've seen evidence of? What you saw is in no way set in stone. I first met some bald guy from my future in 1893. Then, I saw an older version of him again in 2024. I played it cool and showed no recognition of him to see if he was the same man from the same timeline that I met in 1893. Considering he never mentioned our 1893 meeting, I realized he must be from a different timeline! So you see, it's all wibbly wobbly timey wimey. You have nothing to worry about, stick around in Starfleet.

Pike: Ok!

 

[Sakonna]

The different approaches of Star Trek and Star Wars are becoming more prominent as Star Wars has now entrenched itself into the sci-fi tv show territory that was mostly Trek's domain until now.

A very prominent season cliffhanger two parter from TNG is given no mention at all, not even as expository dialogue explaining the episode's rules of time travel.

The final showdown between Boba Fett and another bounty hunter hinges entirely on the emotional history of 2 characters who literally only briefly interacted in 1 episode of a 7 season cartoon show, an episode which even a lot of hardcore Star Wars fans probably hadn't seen, heard of, or remember.

Truly one of the best arguments for the superiority of Star Trek I've yet seen.

And really splashes cold-water on my desire to finish Boba Fett, where I'm stalled on ep 4.

But yeah, I do know some people who are newly into Streaming Trek. So by that angle, maybe a "Time's Arrow" call-out is more disruptive than it needs to be.

A lot of time and headache could have been saved if the coordinates the Queen gave Picard lead him directly to The Watcher.

You're right, that WAS awkward plotting. It's weird that the Queen's coordinates for the Watcher were actually just the coordinates for someone who knew the Watcher.

Gary Seven..... Seven of Nine (Hmmm)

Love that. I guess it's time for me to finally watch "Assignment: Earth", one of the TOS eps I still have not gotten around to.

I notice several Easter eggs. One was pretty obscure. When Picard is talking to Guinan, you can see a window with Floyd's Barbershop in the window. In TOS' Miri, they filmed in the same backlot as the Andy Griffith show and you could see Floyd's Barbershop in that episode.

That is a fun sighting. Maybe I should watch "Miri" too...

 

[fireproof78]

The final showdown between Boba Fett and another bounty hunter hinges entirely on the emotional history of 2 characters who literally only briefly interacted in 1 episode of a 7 season cartoon show, an episode which even a lot of hardcore Star Wars fans probably hadn't seen, heard of, or remember.

Eh, while I can see the argument, I do not find that the is the entirety of it. I will be revisiting it once done with Mandalorian Season 2. But, yeah, my emotional investment came, surprisingly, from caring about Boba Fett, rather than whomever Cad Bane was to his history.

Pike: Ok, Dr. Strange!

Edited to add in appropriate pop culture reference.

 

[Awesome Possum]

You can see Floyd's Barbershop in City on the Edge of Forever too. MeTV even used it to create a commercial where the people of Mayberry are chasing after Kirk and Spock.

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[DaveyNY]

So apparently, according to the writers of the episode, whatever Q did to change things, has not only affected the future after the event on the 15th, but before as well.

That means what we're seeing is a Prime Timeline completely changed from the point just before the Stargazer arrives in 2024 on, and the only way it can be changed back is for Picard to do "something" on the 15th.

Essentially, the time-travel aspect of the story is just another manifestation of Q's involvement and doesn't really change the Original Prime Timeline at all.

This whole season is just a Q "shower scene".

 

[Mr Awe]

Are all of you people forgetting that the future was altered? Picard never came back in time to meet Guinan in the 18th century

As presented in the story, Picard and company are present at a point before any changes. Additionally, assuming that they prevent the timeline from being altered on the 15th, Picard would goes back to see Guinan. Hence, she'd still recognize him. It's only if they fail to prevent the alteration that the normal future doesn't exist.

Finally, if your interpretation is correct, then why does bus punk remember his encounter with Spock in TVH? Using your logic, that wouldn't have occurred either.

 

[fireproof78]

As presented in the story, Picard and company are present at a point before any changes. Additionally, assuming that they prevent the timeline from being altered on the 15th, Picard would goes back to see Guinan. Hence, she'd still recognize him. It's only if they fail to prevent the alteration that the normal future doesn't exist.

Finally, if your interpretation is correct, then why does bus punk remember his encounter with Spock in TVH? Using your logic, that wouldn't have occurred either.

The Whale Probe still would have come.

 

[gweeps]

There are probably assumptions being made by Picard and co.. I'm itching to see what the Borg Queen and Q are really up to. And what the Watcher(s?) has to say.

 

[Dukhat]

The Whale Probe still would have come.

Unless the Confederacy in the 23rd century destroyed it.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Also as a minority myself (albeit asian and not black), I'm wondering if the unintentional implied message of people of color having it worse in 2024 than they did in 1893 is a bit... look, I'm the first to say minorities have it bad right now but I think it might be a bit over the top. Guinan was with the social elite like Mark Twain. Over a hundred years later she's at the bottom of society.

Initially after the Civil War there was a brief surge in civil rights and black people were gaining political power, that's why Jim Crow laws got passed in the 1890s in the south. It's possible that being in San Francisco surrounded by the cultural elite protected her to some degree. It's also something that the writer of Time's Arrow probably didn't consider. Things are pretty shit now, we have elected officials losing their shit because a TV show depicted a black woman as the President of Earth a thousand years in the future. Things will probably be even worse in two years.

 

[fireproof78]

Unless the Confederacy in the 23rd century destroyed it.

I find that hard to believe but maybe.

 

[Tiberius Jim]

I did enjoy how the cloaking device of the La Sirena sounded an awful lot like the one of the Klingon Bird-of-Prey in TSFS.

 

[Dukhat]

I find that hard to believe but maybe.

It isn’t any more believable than the Confederacy destroying the Borg, but there you go.

 

[fireproof78]

It isn’t any more believable than the Confederacy destroying the Borg, but there you go.

I find destroying the Borg slightly more believable than the whale probe.

But, regardless. It's time travel. As a rule the shit doesn't make sense.