Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x10 - "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2"

[Kirk Prime]

He says he knew he died in the year 2379, though not the specific event.

They didn't go through enough. What we have here, is that Data was not only alive, but accessible. I think the conversation was poorly written as it was out of character not only for Data to want to die, but for Picard to simply allow it without trying to urge him to come back. At minimum, perhaps he would want a more proper goodbye with his other crew mates.

But even if Data was ok with dying, the idea that his shipmates would be ok with it makes no sense. It's human to make an argument to try to persuade your friend to live, and again, Data's life was pretty short compared to an average human.

 

[Soong-type Android]

Is the real human Picard definitely dead or could he still somehow be alive and come back for season 2?

 

[cooleddie74]

The body? It's dead and probably buried now.

 

[fireproof78]

He says he knew he died in the year 2379, though not the specific event.

They didn't go through enough. What we have here, is that Data was not only alive, but accessible. I think the conversation was poorly written as it was out of character not only for Data to want to die, but for Picard to simply allow it without trying to urge him to come back. At minimum, perhaps he would want a more proper goodbye with his other crew mates.

But even if Data was ok with dying, the idea that his shipmates would be ok with it makes no sense. It's human to make an argument to try to persuade your friend to live, and again, Data's life was pretty short compared to an average human.

Few seem to be willing to regard Data's wishes in the moment.

 

[Gilora]

There are other ways to make a black woman flawed without stooping to the obvious and even racist. I don't know why you're trying to defend something that, even when given the most extreme benefit of the doubt, is super, thoughtlessly lazy. It certainly isn't a "good sign" of anything.

I have some inside knowledge about actual black women. That's why.

 

[Gilora]

That’s a fraught perspective because it justifies stereotypical portrayals. People of color have long been stereotyped as being prone to substance abuse and having broken families, and media has played on this for ages. Yes there are people in any group who fit a stereotype, but when their group is routinely portrayed that way you can’t really just dismiss that as “the way it is”. The cultural baggage is just too heavy.

Routinely? In Star Trek? Nope.

 

[Gilora]

Wait. How was Raffi a racist stereotype?

Did I miss something?

You did. I did as well.

 

[Gilora]

The one darker skinned character in the cast is the one with broken family and the substance abuse issues. Textbook.

Not my textbook. YMMV.

 

[Yanks]

A little late to the game here...

I didn't want to break this thing down right after I saw it. I just wanted to enjoy the greatness that was in this episode. Because the ending made me feel so damn good.

I just watched it again. I know there are lots of dangling participles...

I enjoyed Agnes in this one. She has had her moments throughout this season, but a valid reason has never has been revealed for her to kill Maddox. If it was his knowledge in creating Soji/Dahj then she should have committed suicide. She worked right alongside him. I guess a layer could argue she was under Commander Oh's influence, but it appears she doesn't have to turn herself in and all is forgotten. I guess we'll see if anything comes of this during season two. I hope they don't drop it.

Elnor is an interesting one. You could completely remove him from this show and nothing of merit changes... but I like the kid and am glad he's a part of the crew. Silly I guess, but that's the way it is. I would have preferred he ended Narik in hand to hand combat.

Rios... enjoyed him. Didn't really care for all his holograms. I understand he likes soccer, but that was one wing-ding soccer ball he took with him to destroy the beacon. I guess he had a remote-controlled opening ball laying around. Kind of a dumb way to address destroying the beacon, being how he has a repaired ship with quantum torpedoes and phasors at his disposal...

Rizzo... competent badass I guess. I'm not surprised at all that she met her demise. The sensual sister stuff was puzzling, not sure what they were going for there, or why, although she seemed to display some genuine love for her brother in this episode.

Narek... I thought Harry Treadaway did a great job with the part. I guess we could have learned more about the Talshiar flunky family part of it. Missing that made his bringing it up seem like a spoiled child whining... boo hoo...

Seven kicking the crap out of Rizzo was refreshing albeit horribly choreographed. I still believe they totally underused her in this season. She enhanced every episode/scene she was in and Jeri did an outstanding job giving us this seasoned/hardened new Seven. I just wish her nanoprobes could have saved Hugh. The second best part of the final scene with all the crew on the bridge of the (still don't know the name) was that she was there. I seriously hope she ends up being a permanent part of the crew as we head into season 2. Her current mission as part of the Fenris Rangers might not be a bad mission for this rag-tag crew to take up. That could be the perfect mission for this ship and crew, especially with the talent they've amassed.

Raffi... her character has been all over the place. Is she a druggie or not? ... or only when the script might call for it? Early in the season, I was not too fond of Hurd's acting or the character, but I think she has grown into this character and I quite liked her as the season came to a close. Still questions about her... why did she lose her security clearance and get booted from Star Fleet? ... because she knew Picard? .... because of her conspiracy investigations? Maybe I missed something.

Riker and Troi... aside from seeing them once again, they were a wonderful addition to this series. Troi knocking Picard back a notch was needed and Frakes' screen presence is always top-tier and I thoroughly enjoyed seeing him lead the fleet to help his old Captain.

Commander Oh... I never once questioned her resolve and dedication to her quest. I tip my hat to Tamlyn Tomita; she nailed her part. At the end, she was given some pretty cartoonish stuff, but she delivered it expertly. I'm pretty certain her character won't be a part of the series going forward and that's a sad thing IMO.

Soji... Isa Briones was fantastic (Soji, Dahj and Sutra). I really enjoyed the relationship she developed with Picard and the season progressed. I was also impressed when I heard that she was the vocalist for 'Blue Skies' in the final episode. Talented gal. There are some pretty serious gaps in the development of her character though... how did she know the stuff she knew about the borg etc.? Why is SHE the destroyer? ... if her sister was alive, would they both be Destroyers? I thought she was great in the final episode and not only was happy to see her turn off the beacon, but I was glad to see her do it for the reasons she did. She had some really touching moments in this season and I was excited to see she will be "wandering" with us in season 2. So glad they didn't leave her on that planet.

And last but not least, Picard. Tough one here. I go from hating the way they brought him to us... a quitter, just living out his years, in some bullshit deep depression over losing Data. That's just crap IMO and totally out of character. Many times during the season I was distracted by Stewart's acting... I know he's old, but a few times it appeared he was REALLY struggling to get the lines out. I suppose we should chalk that up to bad directing? Then the last few episodes we saw the Picard we all knew and loved. He was outstanding in this last episode. I was wrong, I thought they would cure his "syndrome" by some sort of positronic blah, blah that Troi referenced. But they chose the golom(sp?) route. I guess that's OK, I guess it doesn't matter. He is now cured, and while they say he'll age as he normally would have he certainly won't be bogged down by illness etc. But all that being what it may be, the pinnacle of this entire series so far was the Picard's relationship with Data and the final scene we got in this episode. It was so damn good. On par with epic Trek scenes as Kirk losing Spock in TWoK, Trip/T'Pol realizing they will lose Elizabeth in Terra Prime and Data losing Lal to name a few. Both were completely in character. Data, as always, is striving to be more human and he needs to finish his quest by realizing the finality of mortality. I was a mess as Picard walked out of that "extremely detailed quantum blah, blah" when he, struggling to hold back his emotion, said "Goodbye Commander" and Data unemotionally replied "Goodbye Captain". This is going to be a scene I well up every time I watch it. A great end to an iconic character. The only thing I thought could have made the Data storyline better was if he had a conversation with Soji.

To the ending, when Picard is coming back to life in the golum, the best part of the whole scene was the wonderful smile Soji gave us (him). I'm a sap, I know. I enjoy the bond these two have developed.

The whole stand-off might have been better served had Commander Oh and Riker showed up in one ship each. It wouldn't have been so cartoonish. With 200+ ships, Commander Oh could have easily fought off the orchids, engaged Riker and laid waste to that tiny settlement; all at the same time. Remember Kirk talking about the power of a Star Ship? ... being able to destroy planets? No need for the overkill.

Then, of course, Picard has a promise to fulfill. I'm losing it again. Blue Skies, Picard's wonderful words, and some tremendous CG depicting a dying Data with Picard at his side. Whew, incredibly powerful there. I can only hope he reunites with Lal.

So to wrap up this season, it was a rollercoaster for me. Loved the first episode, but then it started a downward trend, never getting really bad, just kind of coasting... trodding along until the closing episodes. Could the writing had been better? .. sure. I'm no writer, but there are some seriously gaping holes that even I could plainly see that could have easily been filled. But I'm glad we got this series and am looking forward to more seasons in the future. Notice I didn't compare this to Discovery. I'm not sure how that solves anything or is beneficial. Talk about apples and oranges.

Lose the f-bombs and the gore (Icheb)... I don't like seeing a rating of "MA-L" on my Star Trek.

I like the rag-tag bunch we have now and look forward to future adventures. Maybe sometime I'll be able to remember the name of Rios' ship.

 

[fireproof78]

And last but not least, Picard. Tough one here. I go from hating the way they brought him to us... a quitter, just living out his years, in some bullshit deep depression over losing Data. That's just crap IMO and totally out of character.

Not to snip but I hate this. Depressing is not crap and anyone can struggle with it. I think they portrayed Picard in the most realistic and relatable way possible with depression and questions over legacy. And it wasn't just over Data either.

I know realism and Trek don't always go hand-in-hand but this one I like. Show me people struggling with mental health and need that support. Mental health conditions are still poorly understood and Picard is a great example of how it can be accurately portrayed.

*rant over*

 

[Makarov]

Geordi would have honored his friends wishes. Remember, he was the one who dropped the force field that enabled Data to jump to the Scimitar and sacrifice himself in the first place.

He was also the one who refused to remove safe guards when Data wanted to remove them and let the borg drone attack him. He spent considerable effort explaining why he didnt want to let him do that.

Sometimes it takes a friend to know when someone's wishes arent actually good for them

 

[Kirk Prime]

Few seem to be willing to regard Data's wishes in the moment.

I think that's because the wishes are so out of character. And it's not human for one of his best friends not to even TRY to talk him out of it.

That's out of character too. It's almost like the writers took Brent Spiner's wishes and not Data's.

 

[fireproof78]

I think that's because the wishes are so out of character. And it's not human for one of his best friends not to even TRY to talk him out of it.

That's out of character too. It's almost like the writers took Brent Spiner's wishes and not Data's.

He had already died once. He seemed accepting of that fate and his mortality. We have no idea what Data or his memories or his shadow had experienced while in limbo. So, as Data would note the experience of time is much different for him than others.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Soji... Why is SHE the destroyer? ... if her sister was alive, would they both be Destroyers?

That's the thing about prophecies. They exist in a world without linear time being a consideration and very much open to various forms of interpretation.

In this case, Dahj never could have been the Destroyer, because she was always destined to play the part of the other one (can't remember the specific title, other than "daughter"). She was always destined to die, leaving only Soji, who was always destined to be the Destroyer.

 

[Yanks]

That's the thing about prophecies. They exist in a world without linear time being a consideration and very much open to various forms of interpretation.

In this case, Dahj never could have been the Destroyer, because she was always destined to play the part of the other one (can't remember the specific title, other than "daughter"). She was always destined to die, leaving only Soji, who was always destined to be the Destroyer.

OK.

I understand prophecies, but why Soji? .... did Maddox create her knowing this? How did she know how to create the beacon?

Or is this just mumbo-jumbo that Soji just happened to fall into?

Not arguing, just interested.

 

[Mark 2000]

I have some inside knowledge about actual black women. That's why.

Not my textbook. YMMV.

I always find this kind of internet appeal to authority especially amusing. First, whatever first or second hand knowledge you claim to have about black women is mostly unverifiable. You can claim anything on the internet. Second, it wouldn't matter anyway. There are plenty of vocal homophobic gay people, misogynistic women, and self-hating (add ethnicity here)s out there who are cool with anything. One person's personal opinion doesn't negate the opinion of millions of others nor does it settle an argument in any way. I wouldn't ask a black personal friend to speak for all black people. Why would I consider you a proxy either?

 

[137th Gebirg]

OK.

I understand prophecies, but why Soji? .... did Maddox create her knowing this? How did she know how to create the beacon?

Or is this just mumbo-jumbo that Soji just happened to fall into?

Not arguing, just interested.

S'all good.

Again, prophecies. The way I interpret the course of events shown, Maddox likely didn't know about the prophecy. The prophecy, however, knew about him, Dahj, Soji, Data, etc. Or, rather, the author (prophet) of the prophecy did. When we saw the thousands-year-old Admonition, we saw an android-like face morph specifically into Data's (or some Soong-type construct). All these things had been specifically seen in advance and interpreted/reinterpreted/misinterpreted by countless generations of Romulans (and probably Vulcans) for millennia.

The real question that should be asked is, "Who was the prophet who saw these events from the future?"

 

[Yanks]

S'all good.

Again, prophecies. The way I interpret the course of events shown, Maddox likely didn't know about the prophecy. The prophecy, however, knew about him, Dahj, Soji, Data, etc. Or, rather, the author (prophet) of the prophecy did. When we saw the thousands-year-old Admonition, we saw an android-like face morph specifically into Data's (or some Soong-type construct). All these things had been specifically seen in advance and interpreted/reinterpreted/misinterpreted by countless generations of Romulans (and probably Vulcans) for millennia.

The real question that should be asked is, "Who was the prophet who saw these events from the future?"

That makes sense. That person(s) would have to be from LONG ago... that's probably a question that should have been answered in this season of Picard.

I must admit, I had forgotten that Vulcans/Romulans settled on Vulcan, they didn't evolve there.

 

[Gonzo]

Its just a self fulfilling prophecy that was short circuited by Picard.

In the end it was Sutra who learned of the means to create the beacon but that was only possible because the Commodore gave that information to Agnes.

You could say that Sutra was the Destroyer or even Soji right up until the point were Picard changed her mind, there is also a case for saying that its the Commodore herself for starting the vicious circle in the first place.

If Picard had never become involved then Narek would still have found out about the planet from Soji and it would have been destroyed with Starfleet being none the wiser, the Synths on the planet could not have built the beacon to save themselves as they did not have contact with anyone who had the required information.

So in a way you could even include Picard as a possible cause of an organic apocalypse.

 

[Gilora]

I always find this kind of internet appeal to authority especially amusing. First, whatever first or second hand knowledge you claim to have about black women is mostly unverifiable. You can claim anything on the internet. Second, it wouldn't matter anyway. There are plenty of vocal homophobic gay people, misogynistic women, and self-hating (add ethnicity here)s out there who are cool with anything. One person's personal opinion doesn't negate the opinion of millions of others nor does it settle an argument in any way. I wouldn't ask a black personal friend to speak for all black people. Why would I consider you a proxy either?

Happy to amuse you.