Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x10 - "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2"

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Data didnt want to die he just wanted to experience a mortal life for a few moments. Which means they could have constructed an elaborate fake death to give him the experience without really killing him, and then he would have been satisfied.

But I'm not overthinking it I just take the ending as the beautiful scene they wrote which I quite enjoyed
 
Data didnt want to die he just wanted to experience a mortal life for a few moments. Which means they could have constructed an elaborate fake death to give him the experience without really killing him, and then he would have been satisfied.

But I'm not overthinking it I just take the ending as the beautiful scene they wrote which I quite enjoyed

Yeah, but again, only 41 years old. If at age 41, you are given a choice between life and death, who chooses death? That is not the human thing to do. Picard chose life at 94. Data, who always wanted to be human, had so much to live for and so many reasons to want to come back.

I think the actor's wishes were trumping the character's in this case.
 
That would be game changing for basically every Trek since 1994.

This would make too many of the purists happy. Then I'd be there to point out they just let themselves accidentally get excited about a Star Trek made after TNG. ;)
 
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This would make too many of purists happy. Then I'd be there to point out they just let themselves accidentally get excited about a Star Trek made after TNG.

It would make a lot of people happy. Kirk does not die. He's in there too. The Borg aren't bastardized. Enterprise? Nope. Voyager? Nope. Discovery? Nope. The Kelvin Universe? Nope. All of that would be constructs of the nexus. Canon? Yes. Real within the Trek universe? Nope.
 
Yeah, but again, only 41 years old. If at age 41, you are given a choice between life and death, who chooses death? That is not the human thing to do.

When you frame it that way, you make a very good point. Being 40 myself, I would definitely choose life. No one in my family has ever made it to 94 but, if I did, I might feel "it's time to go" (even though 90 in Star Trek is more like what we'd think of as 60 today). So, this is not wrong. And another reason why I'm not going to dispute anyone who says Picard's resurrection is a cop-out.

But there's another way to look at this too. Regardless of your age, disembodiment for 20 years will change your perspective. Data died in NEM through his actions. Picard in PIC died from a defect. Data chose his end, he chose to sacrifice himself. Picard didn't get to make any such choice in his situation with the defect.

It would make a lot of people happy. Kirk does not die. He's in there too. The Borg aren't bastardized. Enterprise? Nope. Voyager? Nope. Discovery? Nope. The Kelvin Universe? Nope. All of that would be constructs of the nexus. Canon? Yes. Real within the Trek universe? Nope.
First Contact is my favorite TNG Movie by far, I like Discovery (as much as I like Picard, I'll have you know), and I like Voyager enough on-balance that I wouldn't want it to go. But I can do without everything else on your list.
 
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Data did already die in Nemesis, right? Just that one pesky neuron persisted and existed within a virtual world for the ensuing 18 years. Was Data's mind active during all that time, so that he actually "lived" within that construct? Pinocchio wanting to be human is easily comprehended, and since death is the ultimate end of the human experience, wanting to go through that is understandable. Although I personally don't view death as the only, or even most crucial, defining characteristic of the human race. Give me 300 years and if I get bored, then we'll talk.
 
Data did already die in Nemesis, right? Just that one pesky neuron persisted and existed within a virtual world for the ensuing 18 years. Was Data's mind active during all that time, so that he actually "lived" within that construct? Pinocchio wanting to be human is easily comprehended, and since death is the ultimate end of the human experience, wanting to go through that is understandable. Although I personally don't view death as the only, or even most crucial, defining characteristic of the human race. Give me 300 years and if I get bored, then we'll talk.
My understanding is that the version of Data in the construct was a copy from the transfer to B4 in Nemesis. Some time after that, he was transferred to the construct and lives there ever since, not unlike Moriarty in TNG. I've no idea what the passage of time is like inside that thing, but wouldn't be surprised if a lot more time passed for Data than did on the outside.
 
I think, despite kinda liking it in the beginning...I have soured on this ep and as a result Picard as a whole thing.

Ultimately, it’s a ten hour pilot. A lot of emotional scenes felt unearned, and odd choices were made. There’s the constant ‘Data’s coming back’ tease, which goes unresolved, Dahj and Soji are resolved off camera as far as their ‘mystery’ is concerned...and I think that’s true of so many things.
It dips it’s toes in nostalgia subtly (kestra recalling Rene in Family with her introduction) and not so subtly (the TNG theme swell becoming very much recurring to tell us when Picard is being Picardlike.) but tries desperately to avoid getting its feet wet (no TNG crew present for the deaths of Picard or Data? When the Data one is planned, he owes at least Troi and Riker some information.) or shock (death of the Borg dudes).

Ultimately, the story isn’t really about Picard...perhaps that isn’t entirely fair, given how much it tries to be. It’s about Data...but doesn’t really go there either. No status quo is changed, and everything not about Data plays as a sequel to stuff we haven’t seen. I am not sure why Seven is really there, she’s a dislocated character and it shows, and you could make very minor tweaks to have *any* of the TNG crew take Picard’s role in events without too much change, or even Doctor Bashir.
Ultimately it feels too much of an attempt at rehashing stuff from the novels, except where it deliberately goes against them to avoid it becoming too obvious (a problem Star Wars also recently suffered)

But ultimately, ten hours to restore a status quo it first had to tell us was gone (the federation as utopia) ten hours to talk about one it kept static (data is dead) over and over and ultimately ten hours to get the cast all standing on a bridge well enough and bonded enough to go and have adventures. It made some weird choices on the way, and had nice individual moments, but I don’t ultimately think it brought anything new to the table.

It felt like an odd fanfic ultimately, where all the author inserts have crowded out the regular cast. There’s even the stirrings of all the seven slash fic in there.

I don’t know... it’s difficult not to let nostalgia and a need for something better than Nemesis as a coda to make me want to like this. But I think we just spent ten hours retreading Nemesis with some extra weirdness.
 
That's an interesting thing, but again, the question becomes why? Is Data suicidal? Why wouldn't Picard try to talk to him about it? If Picard can be revived in a new body, it stands to reason that Data could as well. Data only lived 41 years. In the All Good Things Timeline, Data was alive and well at this point in history. It makes perfect sense to reanimate him.
Except he wished to be dead. He is no longer the only synthetic lifeform out there and has been stuck in limbo for years.

I don't like it but I definitely see the respecting a person's wishes to die position.
 
I don't think he's been in limbo for years, if this Data is just a midwife created during the construction of a Data clone, that became the Picard gollum.

The deathwish could be artificial, to ensure that the colony is not drowning in thousands of copies of Data who all think that they are all the real thing, and wants to be in charge.

Selfcleaning.
 
I know Brent Spiner thought he was too old to play the character but is there a reason they couldn't just deep fake his face onto a young actor? Those are on youtube and effective enough for an android.
 
And upsetting that a black woman was not only an addict but also an absentee mother. Umm… that’s relies too much on old stereotypes and a little tone deaf on the part of the show runners.
If you ask me, it's a good sign that the writers were not concerned about "old stereotypes." Black women are just as human as anyone else and do not have to be portrayed as magical beings who are never flawed f*ck-ups.
 
And each had their different upsides and downsides. Spiner managed to endow each generation of Soong with likable as well as truly bizarre and dislikable personality traits and sell each one as a different person despite their largely identical physical appearances.
That's why I always tell everybody that Spiner is one of THE best actors ever. He doesn't even need costumes to be different people.
 
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