Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 5x09 - "Lagrange Point"

[Kaelef]

Look the episode was fine and I hate myself for beating this dead horse again but I cannot for the life of me get past the fact that Burnham and Book had a heart to heart whilst undercover on an enemy ship when time was of the essence in plain sight. I am stupefied. It embodies every beef I’ve had with the show for a couple of seasons now.

When they find the progenitor device/gateway, they waste minutes waxing philosophically about how amazing it is that it's been there for hundreds of years INSTEAD OF JUST GRABBING IT BECAUSE THEY'RE LITERALLY IN A RACE TO GET THIS THING. And then, of course, Moll+Breen show up and just nab it immediately, AS DISCOVERY SHOULD HAVE DONE.

Obviously, it wasn't time for the heroes to "win" just yet, but the writers should've come up with a reason why they didn't quite grab it first that didn't come down to simple incompetence.

There are way too many moments like that in this episode, up to and including Burnham, after taking an eternity to disconnect a power supply, getting the transporter locking device back on the progenitor mystery box while surrounded by the enemy WITHOUT FIRST SIGNALING THE TEAM TO TAKE THE SHIELD DOWN AND IMMEDIATELY TRANSPORT THE BOX. She had a window of a second or two for everything to fall into place, but there was no way it was going to work out because nobody else knew when she was getting that lock back on.

The only thing that saved this episode for me was the rescue scene at the end with Discovery ramming right into that cargo hold. That looked great and was pretty exciting.

I really shouldn't care anymore - this sort of sloppy writing has always been Discovery's weakness. I guess I just can't believe they haven't figured it out in five seasons.

I suppose it's good that this isn't one of those cases where the show starts getting good and the pieces start falling together just as it gets canceled, since that's way more heartbreaking. I'm liking Rayner, though - probably the best addition to the show has had. (I like Booker, but I don't think the show knows what to do with him.)

 

[Elaise]

When they find the progenitor device/gateway, they waste minutes waxing philosophically about how amazing it is that it's been there for hundreds of years INSTEAD OF JUST GRABBING IT BECAUSE THEY'RE LITERALLY IN A RACE TO GET THIS THING. And then, of course, Moll+Breen show up and just nab it immediately, AS DISCOVERY SHOULD HAVE DONE.

Obviously, it wasn't time for the heroes to "win" just yet, but the writers should've come up with a reason why they didn't quite grab it first that didn't come down to simple incompetence.

There are way too many moments like that in this episode, up to and including Burnham, after taking an eternity to disconnect a power supply, getting the transporter locking device back on the progenitor mystery box while surrounded by the enemy WITHOUT FIRST SIGNALING THE TEAM TO TAKE THE SHIELD DOWN AND IMMEDIATELY TRANSPORT THE BOX. She had a window of a second or two for everything to fall into place, but there was no way it was going to work out because nobody else knew when she was getting that lock back on.

The only thing that saved this episode for me was the rescue scene at the end with Discovery ramming right into that cargo hold. That looked great and was pretty exciting.

I really shouldn't care anymore - this sort of sloppy writing has always been Discovery's weakness. I guess I just can't believe they haven't figured it out in five seasons.

I suppose it's good that this isn't one of those cases where the show starts getting good and the pieces start falling together just as it gets canceled, since that's way more heartbreaking. I'm liking Rayner, though - probably the best addition to the show has had. (I like Booker, but I don't think the show knows what to do with him.)

Burnham incompetence is a staple for the series this whole season has been race to fix her massive screw up.

Tilly should have been on that away mission not Burnham, she ishte engineer and would have gotten it done faster.

I think someone pointed out that the writers are drama writers from the CW and other areas, not sci fi writers.

 

[UssGlenn]

There are way too many moments like that in this episode, up to and including Burnham, after taking an eternity to disconnect a power supply, getting the transporter locking device back on the progenitor mystery box while surrounded by the enemy WITHOUT FIRST SIGNALING THE TEAM TO TAKE THE SHIELD DOWN AND IMMEDIATELY TRANSPORT THE BOX. She had a window of a second or two for everything to fall into place, but there was no way it was going to work out because nobody else knew when she was getting that lock back on.

They don't mention it in the episode, but the device has lights on it that were changing colors. Mol removed it before the final light had turned from yellow to green. So there was never a moment that the transport could happen. However I do agree with your larger point about tactically having the shield down first.

 

[Quantum21]

I've taken to watching the writers of each discovery episode on this show after each stream. Cirroc Lofton is on it. Often there are some enlightening things brought up in it.

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[Galaxy]

I don't think they've mention when Book met Cleveland Booker. Doesn't seem to be on Kwejian, though. So he's probably human.

Moll is human.

Moll's father, Cleveland Booker IV was human, who simply served as mentor to Tareckx, teaching him the life and ways of a courier after Tareckx left his homeworld Kwejian. When Booker IV retired, Tareckx changed his name and became Cleveland Booker V, who we now know as Book.

You guys just jogged my memory. I had forgotten that we were actually introduced to Book's biological father, with that whole tree sap collecting ceremony from the world root.

 

[JoseNoodles]

6/10 It was okay. A lot of action, but really just a setup for the finale. I do have a few questions though: How long has cloaking technology been on the Discovery? I don't recall it being mentioned in S3 or S4, so I'm guessing it is now standard on all Starfleet vessels since Ni'Var joined. Also, how can you tractor a portal, which is presumably intangible? The scientists who discovered the tech in the 24th Century managed to retrieve it between two black holes, put it in a special container, and the put it back between the holes? Or did they find the technology somewhere else and then put it in between the black holes? I'm guessing the latter, but where was the technology located originally?

 

[Fateor]

And frankly, we got enough of the advancements shown. Casually transporting within the ship. Control systems modified to an individuals’ needs. Plenty of good stuff.

All things that existed during the 25th century.

And it’s fallacy to assume ALL tech must be even more advanced just by the virtue of passing years. If the Burn didn’t ever happen, maybe technology in the 32nd century would be even more advanced than it is currently depicted. It took about 60 years to go from the Wright brothers to the first moon landing, but then human space travel hasn’t traversed beyond that for the last 60 years.

So many variables could probably explain why technology in the 32nd century isn’t as big of a leap from the 24th century compared to the leap from the 16th to the 24th, but that’s not what this show is about. It’s still a Star Trek series that runs on its own signature tropes.

And you might have a point except for one thing, the universe didn't jump from 24th century to the 32nd century.

We in fact do have information about what technologies existed in the 25th century, the 26th century, the 29th century, and the 31st centuries.

I really shouldn't care anymore - this sort of sloppy writing has always been Discovery's weakness. I guess I just can't believe they haven't figured it out in five seasons.

Figuring out that there's a problem requires being confronted with the fact that said problem exists.

But Discovery's self selected itself to the point where the only one's left watching it are those who will never give an episode anything below a 6/10, and a much smaller minority of people who are watching it because it's Star Trek. So as far as the writers are concerned, they're making the best thing ever and anyone who thinks otherwise is just a hater who will never be happy.

 

[fireproof78]

But Discovery's self selected itself to the point where the only one's left watching it are those who will never give an episode anything below a 6/10, and a much smaller minority of people who are watching it because it's Star Trek. So as far as the writers are concerned, they're making the best thing ever and anyone who thinks otherwise is just a hater who will never be happy.

This assumes the writing staff is consistent, believes there is a problem and has the opportunity to learn and not just move on.

And Discovery has scored 5 out of 10 for me in Season 3, 4 and 5, if I were to judge it so. So...why is this bad?

 

[Lakenheath 72]

I fall into the camp of people who watch the series because it is Star Trek. For me, the writing is as, taking a phrase from the video game industry, "wide as an ocean, as shallow as a pond". As I have said before, I had hopes that the fifth season would be good, and that the series would end well. Something like Star Trek: Picard; it had two troubled seasons; however, it managed to have a very good third season. For myself, I am frustrated that Discovery seems incapable of learning from and growing past its mistakes. If there had been a sixth season, it would still be burdened with the same issues. So, I am happy to see it ending and I am appreciative that Paramount is giving a gift to the fans of this series an epilogue for the characters. Let's just hope that it is better than the gift called "These Are The Voyages...".

 

[Galaxy]

There are way too many moments like that in this episode, up to and including Burnham, after taking an eternity to disconnect a power supply, getting the transporter locking device back on the progenitor mystery box while surrounded by the enemy WITHOUT FIRST SIGNALING THE TEAM TO TAKE THE SHIELD DOWN AND IMMEDIATELY TRANSPORT THE BOX. She had a window of a second or two for everything to fall into place, but there was no way it was going to work out because nobody else knew when she was getting that lock back on.
)

As soon as they lowered the shields, the Breen on the bridge knew something was up, and started to intercept them. They could not lower much ahead of time.

 

[Kaelef]

I fall into the camp of people who watch the series because it is Star Trek. For me, the writing is as, taking a phrase from the video game industry, "wide as an ocean, as shallow as a pond". As I have said before, I had hopes that the fifth season would be good, and that the series would end well. Something like Star Trek: Picard; it had two troubled seasons; however, it managed to have a very good third season. For myself, I am frustrated that Discovery seems incapable of learning from and growing past its mistakes. If there had been a sixth season, it would still be burdened with the same issues. So, I am happy to see it ending and I am appreciative that Paramount is giving a gift to the fans of this series an epilogue for the characters. Let's just hope that it is better than the gift called "These Are The Voyages...".

Agreed, with the exception of Picard's third season, which started off unbelievably strong ("they've actually learned!") and then completely fell to pieces at the end, IMO.

 

[Mr Awe]

I fall into the camp of people who watch the series because it is Star Trek. For me, the writing is as, taking a phrase from the video game industry, "wide as an ocean, as shallow as a pond". As I have said before, I had hopes that the fifth season would be good, and that the series would end well. Something like Star Trek: Picard; it had two troubled seasons; however, it managed to have a very good third season. For myself, I am frustrated that Discovery seems incapable of learning from and growing past its mistakes. If there had been a sixth season, it would still be burdened with the same issues. So, I am happy to see it ending and I am appreciative that Paramount is giving a gift to the fans of this series an epilogue for the characters. Let's just hope that it is better than the gift called "These Are The Voyages...".

I agree with you. Although, I do feel for the people who truly love DIS.

But for me, it's a positive move that they're going put their resources into a new series now with a new writing team. No need to get more of the same. Glad they're trying something different.

 

[Elaise]

I fall into the camp of people who watch the series because it is Star Trek. For me, the writing is as, taking a phrase from the video game industry, "wide as an ocean, as shallow as a pond". As I have said before, I had hopes that the fifth season would be good, and that the series would end well. Something like Star Trek: Picard; it had two troubled seasons; however, it managed to have a very good third season. For myself, I am frustrated that Discovery seems incapable of learning from and growing past its mistakes. If there had been a sixth season, it would still be burdened with the same issues. So, I am happy to see it ending and I am appreciative that Paramount is giving a gift to the fans of this series an epilogue for the characters. Let's just hope that it is better than the gift called "These Are The Voyages...".

Kurtzman left for season 3 and Terry took over. He was someone who was a big fan of the original and made sure to give what he could to the fans. I'm on my second watch through of season 3, its so much fun.
I just looked at the reviews on IMDB and RT and its all very very high. Though if you look at Disco or Picard season 1-2 where it has pretty low rating, and engagement. I really think they should have given/give the franchise to Terry.

 

[Firebird]

I fall into the camp of people who watch the series because it is Star Trek. For me, the writing is as, taking a phrase from the video game industry, "wide as an ocean, as shallow as a pond". As I have said before, I had hopes that the fifth season would be good, and that the series would end well. Something like Star Trek: Picard; it had two troubled seasons; however, it managed to have a very good third season. For myself, I am frustrated that Discovery seems incapable of learning from and growing past its mistakes. If there had been a sixth season, it would still be burdened with the same issues. So, I am happy to see it ending and I am appreciative that Paramount is giving a gift to the fans of this series an epilogue for the characters. Let's just hope that it is better than the gift called "These Are The Voyages...".

By and large, season 5 is an improvement over prior seasons. The 10 episode format has been an asset to helping the story hit the points it needs to in a more timely manner than seasons 2 through 4 managed.

Are there still issues with odd choices and weird tangents? Well, yeah, but that's a Disco staple by this point. But I think we gotta give credit where it's due. Michelle Paradise and the writing team feel like they finally hit their stride this season.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Kurtzman left for season 3 and Terry took over. He was someone who was a big fan of the original and made sure to give what he could to the fans. I'm on my second watch through of season 3, its so much fun.
I just looked at the reviews on IMDB and RT and it’s all very very high. Though if you look at Disco or Picard season 1-2 where it has pretty low rating, and engagement. I really think they should have given/give the franchise to Terry.

Given his idea of LEGACY, I’m better off without it. As much as I liked S3, he did the Titan dirty by renaming it Enterprise-G. Matalas shot his own foot trying to push for a series that would have the same premise another series already has, especially with a ship that has the same name.

 

[Tuskin38]

Kurtzman left for season 3

Kurtzman didn't leave, he had the exact same role in PIC Season 3 that he did in the first 2 seasons, Executive Producer.

Terry was also Showrunner of Season 2 for about half of it before he moved onto Season 3 Pre-production.

Kurtzman was never showrunner of Picard.

 

[Fateor]

By and large, season 5 is an improvement over prior seasons. The 10 episode format has been an asset to helping the story hit the points it needs to in a more timely manner than seasons 2 through 4 managed.

Are there still issues with odd choices and weird tangents? Well, yeah, but that's a Disco staple by this point. But I think we gotta give credit where it's due. Michelle Paradise and the writing team feel like they finally hit their stride this season.

This season has more narrative holes then last season.

Which is really saying something given how many narrative holes last season had.

 

[Elaise]

Kurtzman didn't leave, he had the exact same role in PIC Season 3 that he did in the first 2 seasons, Executive Producer.

Terry was also Showrunner of Season 2 for about half of it before he moved onto Season 3 Pre-production.

Kurtzman was never showrunner of Picard.

Alex Kurtzman is the overseer of the Star Trek franchise and occasionally writes episodes of the various shows, but Picard started off with another notorious hack, Akiva Goldsman, as it’s showrunner in Season 1, then Goldsman split show running duties with Terry Matalas in Season 2, and since Season 2 and 3 were filmed back to back, Akiva Goldsman stayed behind to finish up Season 2 while Terry Matalas went on to be the sole showrunner of Season 3.

Seems like Alex Kurtzman barely had anything to do with Picard outside of helping write the pilot.

Seems like I was wrong about Picard, its more of a patrick stewart and to many cooks in the kitchen for the first 2 seasons.

Disco was his baby, and i guess he did not care much about Lower Decks.

Given his idea of LEGACY, I’m better off without it. As much as I liked S3, he did the Titan dirty by renaming it Enterprise-G. Matalas shot his own foot trying to push for a series that would have the same premise another series already has, especially with a ship that has the same name.

I agree there was silliness in that last episode. Still it does not really ruin the season, gave us a hell of a nice new character in Shaw. I was sad not to see Kate show up for a minute, I would have loved to see her again in live action.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

The silliest fan narrative is that Matalas supposedly got away with S3 by doing it all under Kurtzman’s nose or something, as if Kurtzman at no point looked at what Matalas was doing and giving a thumbs up.

The same kind of fan narrative we see like Filoni barring Kennedy from the set of Mandalorian.

 

[Discovery McDiscoveryFace]

I agree there was silliness in that last episode.

The alternative to naming the Titan as the ENT-G would have been to name it the USS Picard. That may have then given them an easier route to continue the show under the same name as calling a show "Star Trek: Titan" doesn't really work as a name, it's a clunky and butch name.

I don't know what the IRL convention is about naming ships after living veterans.....