Eh, I feel a bit there because I feel like Lak and Moll have way more personality than any of Discovery's crew.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 5x05 - "Mirrors"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Eh, I feel a bit there because I feel like Lak and Moll have way more personality than any of Discovery's crew.
I was just thinking the same thing.
A hypothetical new viewer won't be bothered by the appearance of the Breen because to them they'll be new.
A long-time viewer? They can leave their baggage at the door, or bring it with them. Doesn't really matter. Bring whatever you want to the viewing experience. I liked finding out and seeing new things about the Breen.
DSC is in its fifth season, it's not bringing in new viewers. DSC can show races SNW can't use because of questions like, "Was such and such known about in the TOS Era?"
DSC (and maybe SFA) can make the Breen their own, just like ENT made the Andorians their own and TNG did more with the Klingons and Romulans than TOS did. Just because a race was introduced in the '90s doesn't mean it should stay there forever and ever and ever, never to be used again.
Unlike the Borg and the Klingons, and the Romulans to a lesser extent, the Breen haven't even been remotely overused. They've barely been touched. So I'm not going to act like the Breen have been thoroughly mined and should be left to yesteryear.
I noticed that as well. Quite a leap. I was actually expecting Rhys or whoever it is that they've gone out their way this season to indicate that he loves the 23rd Century Constitution Class to identify it excitedly. But that didn't happen.
I agree with you on this point. I noted similar observations in my review.
Strongly disagree here though. Definitely dips and peaks in Discovery. In fact, it's having a mid-season slump like the past two seasons. Although, this season's slump isn't as bad so far.
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Agreed.
And, the unavoidable problem with developing the Breen at this point is, a lot of people have already come up with their own ideas of the Breen that, in their mind, would have worked far better than what we've seen already.
It's a firm case of "the monster in your mind is always scarier than what's on screen."
But I'd rather have a developed Breen that doesn't 100% line up with my view of them, than not have them at all.
How many theories of the Breen were out there that people actually took seriously? Two?
Well, there's good writing and bad writing. It's not something that fans invented either.
I'd say this episode mainly had decent writing but not stellar. My biggest criticism is that the Moll and L'ak love story seemed weak and trite. There was no amazing writing evident in this script. But it was entertaining.
I don't mind the Enterprise having power. It's very advanced technology and it was intentionally used by the scientists to hide the clue. The escape pod is a head scratcher. It does seem like the writer painted himself into a corner.
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In my review, I said it was inexcusable that they didn't show a picture of Peck with a goatee!! How could they miss that opportunity?!
I understand the time and costs made it hard to get SNW cameos. And it wouldn't make sense given the time period. But to not have a photo of Peck with goatee is a huge missed opportunity.
Publicized? Probably not many. But most people have an idea of something. Or they at least are expecting something to be absolutely amazing.
Some people are bound to be underwhelmed.
The key word being "seriously."
Is there some sort of unwritten rule that people's pet theories are immutable? Asking for a friend, because I'm genuinely confused? Like, I was slightly disappointed that Harrison was Khan in Into Darkness, and would have preferred him as Gary Mitchell, as one theory had gone, but I didn't feel that theory needed to be amazing.
I don't know. Maybe I'm less of an expectations person and go in to accept the story as presented, than catering to my own pet theories. Like, I just don't put that much stock in to them anymore. I did the whole Star Wars Prequel thing and that pretty much wore me out.
The Khan / Into Darkness thing was more just an insult. They didn't even attempt to make him "East Asian / Sikh / whatever". And yeah, it was never specified very well, but Khan clearly was never meant to be a white British dude. And everyone and their mother guessed it would be Khan anyway. And Abrams insulted our intelligence and outright lied to us. So that was a bit different.
For the Breen, I think multiple decades of strange mutterings about them led to people thinking that they'd just be so weird, so completely alien, that just about anything would be underwhelming to some of them.
Like people who complained that the CLoverfield monster wasn't nearly as scary once you knew what it looked like.
How? For fuck sake, an insult implies a matter of malice in intent. Geez, that word gets tossed around for no real benefit.
Sorry, in order for my intelligence to be insulted, I actually have to value the opinion of a movie first. And I don't. I don't know Abrams, and I do not feel insulted. It's such a strange thing. See also, "Slap in the face," "disrespectful" etc.
Like, I need a lot more than just a poor storytelling choice to feel insulted.
Which again, begs the question, why are we letting our expectations dictate our response?
Star Trek has always had a problem with people's headcanons being taken as actual established canon. Australia being the last to join United Earth, Spock as the first Vulcan in Starfleet, women not being allowed to become captains in the 23rd century, Klingon-Federation first contact in 2218, The USS Yorktown being recommissioned as the Enterprise-A, Klingon Birds-of-Prey being Romulan designs, NCC standing for "Naval Construction Contract" and so on... whenever Star Trek refutes or just ignores them, there's always bound to be a few people who immediately declare a canon violation.
When I say "insult", I'm referring specifically to J.J. Abrams lying to us. Personally, I consider a lie to be an insult.
I get it, he was annoyed that everyone guessed his "big reveal", because without that sort of thing he has no other narrative tricks. But, "for fuck sake", he shoulda just kept his mouth shut instead of bald-faced lying. THAT was the insult. Everything else around it was just stupid. Casting Cumberbatch was stupid and borderline racist / offensive, but not insulting.
I would posit it's human nature to let expectations dictate responses. That's where phrases like "tempering your expectations" come from.
I can see WHY people might be disappointed that the Breen reveal wasn't a bit more "out there", but I don't necessarily agree that it means the Breen reveal in and of itself is a disappointment.
Not explaining how things work is important in horror, because horror has a phantasmagoric element, like a dream. Something can be two things at once, and neither, which is part of what makes it terrifying. But science fiction is - generally - a genre which thrives on explaining everything. And the more you explain things, the less threatening they become.
I don't think this is a major issue for the Breen. But I do think this is how they defanged the Borg, turning them from existential body horror into just another Trek race.
The Borg were doomed the minute they introduced the Queen. From what I understand, it was a studio demand to make a villain with a "face" to fight, but it completely destroyed much of what made the Borg intriguing to begin with. That's why the Borg on Voyager were never as interesting or threatening as they were in Scorpion, where they didn't use the Queen.
If it wasn't for Mol being easy on the eyes I would have fallen to sleep. Not a very engaging episode. C-
Alright, well, I will not agree on this one. An insult is far more personal. And Cumberbatch was out of necessity not preference. Never mind that Khan's presentation in Space Seed was also borderline racist/offensive.
In a franchise that espouses human growth I feel that clinging to this sometimes limits our abilities and willingness to see different points of view.
By your own description, people are going to be disappointed regardless. At this point, a bit hyperbolic of me but still, why watch it? You're only going to be disappointed with lazy writing, characters you don't like, and reveals that don't meet expectations. I've grown more and more confused by the nature of fandom the more I interact with it in the last decade. Like, man, this series really weed in your Cheerios, didn't it?
Surprisingly high for not engaging.
Yeah, I don't know why some people keep watching, either. I, for instance, had stopped watching Enterprise completely by season 3. I came back in Season 4, enjoyed it, then was disappointed when it was cancelled.
THere's still enough about Discovery that I like so I'll keep coming back. Even when they piss me off by writing out Owo and Detmer without even a good-bye.
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