Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 5x05 - "Mirrors"

[fireproof78]

I can't imagine ISS Enterprise will be utilized by Starfleet. Discovery was a bit of a special case... it had the unique spore drive and despite being 800 years outdated, it was a newer ship, AND Starfleet needed essentially any ship it could get at the time. Enterprise doesn't really have anything special about it and it's been decaying for 800 years, and Starfleet can build ships again.

The dilithium stores might be quite valuable.

They just look translucent. No dialogue said anything about them being fluid or solid, its conjecture.

So...90% of what we do here.

 

[SG-17]

So...90% of what we do here.

I think there is a difference between a discussion forum and a supposed encyclopedia.

 

[cooleddie74]

If there's a 32nd century equivalent of the Fleet Museum or some kind of Starfleet display yard I'd put it in there. A relic of not only more than 900 years ago but from an entirely different universe we can no longer reach.

 

[fireproof78]

I think there is a difference between a discussion forum and a supposed encyclopedia.

At this point in my life, anything online I take with a grain of salt. So, no, Memory Alpha is not at an "encyclopedia" level for me. It is a handy reference, at best. More often than not, I'm reading transcripts of episodes or watching clips to look for information.

If there's a 32nd century equivalent of the Fleet Museum or some kind of Starfleet display yard I'd put it in there. A relic of not only more than 900 years ago but from an entirely different universe we can no longer reach.

Kovich (impersonating Mister Burns): Excellent.

 

[Charles Phipps]

So, the identity of the Breen are revealed.

Why? Was it really necessary to reveal their identity? I know that its been suggested that multiple species make up the Breen. And we do have hundred of years between DS9 and DIS S5 to open the possibility that they’ve simply evolved their appearance over time, and thus also able to bleed now when they weren't supposed to be able to bleed originally. But still, why?

Also, their skulls are transparent, like Gallamites. Are Gallamites and Breen one and the same?

As for the ISS Enterprise, it could have and probably should have been any other Constitution class ship from the mirror universe.

8/10. Last week’s was better.

I mean they never canonize Novel stuff so yes.

 

[Jayson1]

"I bet it's going to be difficult for Moll and L'ak to escape now."
"Actually it's going to be super easy, barely an inconvenience."
"Oh really?"
"Yeah, they make their getaway in the ship's warp pod."
"Warp pod? Is that a thing?"
"It is now."

"Wow Wow,Wow....Wow
" Then Burnham sends Detmer and Owosekum alone to pilot a 900 year old ship back to Federation space all by themselves""
"Couldn't they just contact Starfleet to send another ship"
"No. It's got to be Detmer and Owosekum"
"Why? Is it important to the plot. A key in solving the mystery of the arc"
"The actors got jobs elsewhere"
"Well Okay then."
"Plus we will need this ship for later in the season."
"Because it's important to the plot, A key in solving the mystery of the arc."
"The standing sets lets us be cheap."
"Budget Tightening is tight"
"So sir what do you think"
"Well as long this episode is all about Discovery then I don't see anything wrong with it."

Headlines: Mirror Universe Enterprise to be main ship in Starfleet Academy show. Mirror Universe Saru to be featured in Section 31 show.

 

[Amasov]

It was an interesting idea to use the Enterprise, but, in a way, I would've almost preffered it was the prime universe Defiant. It could have brought that whole arc full circle.

Agreed that it seemed like a missed opportunity as they didn't seem to do anything interesting with the Enterprise. But, I think they're just setting it up for later. I'm willing to place a bet that in the finale, the Enterprise will be updated and will become the new Federation flaghship in some symbolic move. There has not been any mention of an Enterprise in existence in the 32nd century and so I think this is where that will happen.

 

[SG-17]

I mean they never canonize Novel stuff so yes.

Disc has borrowed from novels a fair amount, mainly Control.

 

[Cr0sis21]

Okay, so I really enjoyed this episode.
Here are some thoughts:
1) Yeah, yeah, budget tightening. Who gives a crap? I'd rather they save money on existing sets and give us interesting little lore tidbits.
2) I'm a bit ambivalent on the Breen reveal. Don't find the "solid" makeup very interesting, but the "gelatinous" look was just, wow. Really cool. And it fit with my headcanon about Breen using refrigeration suits to keep themselves at a certain physical state.
3) Cool story for ISS Enterprise. It's easy for me to buy that it traveled through space AND time, a'la the Defiant, and I like the idea of Terran refugees making it over to the Prime verse (Which was the only cool concept with Mirror Bareil on DS9).
4) People can complain about "memberberries", but at this point for Trek it's a feature, not a bug. There are enough dangling plot threads over the past 55 years that Trek could cannibalize itself for another 50 for story ideas. Yes, it is possible to go overboard, but I'd rather (for instance) finally learn more about the Breen than just make up some new alien race.
5) It seems comically ironic that, after all the bitching I did about not seeing more of Owo and Detmer, they appear to have been written off the series without even showing up once. Even Gray Dishwater got more of a sendoff.
6) Between this season, Picard season 3, and Lower Decks "Parth Ferengi's Heart Place" and "Hear All, Trust Nothing", I'm very happy as a DS9 fan to see it finally getting some love in other series.
7) The "warp pod" is an issue. Why work so hard to create a problem, and then magically resolve it off-screen? Sometimes they make Moll and L'ak look smart, other times they just decide things will work out because the plot says so (Moll on Trill, that warp pod).

 

[UssGlenn]

Overall I liked "Mirrors", although I am a bit puzzled by timelines and such here. Dr. Cho was one of the cabal of scientists who hid the Progenitor tech, and Dr. Cho came from the 23rd century mirror universe... but those scientists were running around hiding the clues during the Dominion War. I suppose it's also not impossible that the ISS Enterprise was hijacked and was hiding out for quite some time, through the fall of the Empire and well into the era of the Alliance.

My interpretation was indeed that the Enterprise stayed in the mirror universe until at least the early 24th Century, since the Empire doesn't fall until the Movie era. Then after the crossover Cho needs time to have a full career in Starfleet and retire an Admiral before the Dominion War.

 

[evilchumlee]

The dilithium stores might be quite valuable.

Is that even an issue anymore? I was under the impression that they can get around fairly easily now ever since Dilithium World was discovered.

 

[fireproof78]

It seems comically ironic that, after all the bitching I did about not seeing more of Owo and Detmer, they appear to have been written off the series without even showing up once. Even Gray Dishwater got more of a sendoff.

I was thinking of you as I watched this. I had a sensible chuckle.

7) The "warp pod" is an issue. Why work so hard to create a problem, and then magically resolve it off-screen? Sometimes they make Moll and L'ak look smart, other times they just decide things will work out because the plot says so (Moll on Trill, that warp pod).

Very much a product of modern productions. I see it everywhere.

4) People can complain about "memberberries", but at this point for Trek it's a feature, not a bug. There are enough dangling plot threads over the past 55 years that Trek could cannibalize itself for another 50 for story ideas. Yes, it is possible to go overboard, but I'd rather (for instance) finally learn more about the Breen than just make up some new alien race.

It's not a "memberberry" if we know next to nothing about a race. As others have noted, it makes sense to explore them and if they had used a new alien race the bitching would be the writers don't care about Star Trek (the writers cannot win for losing. I truly wish all the fans here could have a go at writing one episode to go to air).

Is that even an issue anymore? I was under the impression that they can get around fairly easily now ever since Dilithium World was discovered.

An issue? No. A valuable resource not to be taken lightly? Um, yes.

It's like getting paid and then walking about a 20 dollar bill on the side of the road. Nah, don't need it. I don't have an issue with money right now.

 

[Rahul]

I knew someone was going to say this, it was just a matter of who.

Here's my answer, and I already said it up thread. This is the first time we're seeing the Breen as actual characters. On DS9, they were just there to stand around, make funny noises, and have other people react to them.

The Breen are effectively in the same position as a new species because so little was done with them.

The Breen always seemed like this race in the background that was mentioned on TNG an DS9 that was meant to be a major presence, then when they finally got a spotlight on DS9, the series was almost over. Anyone watching DS9 at the time wanted to see more done with them. Then Star Trek went the way of non-stop prequels for a while and the opportunity didn't come up.

So why NOT use them in the 32nd Century? Better late than never. And the Federation of this time should have more rivals than just the defunct Emerald Chain.

This is a totally valid viewpoint. However it didn't work for me like that.

The Breen worked well as a sudden mystery enemy on DS9. And it was nice to have an alien species not looking like all the other ones, having a unique visual twist & identity with their suits. For us to have some nice speculation what they really looked like, why they wrote their suits etc.

However that was what, 25 years ago? For new fans it's meaningless - they don't even knew about the mystery in the first place, and they got the solution first. And for old fans it's most likely not fitting with any old theories. The explanation for their suits (the two faces) is actually not too bad, I kinda like it. But I don't like the look of the make-up itself.

I think it's mainly because my biggest gripe with modern Trek had always been that it tries to be more of a gap filler for 90s Trek, instead of just throwing it's own ideas on the screen. And even if they have new ideas (like here), they always try to connect it to previous canon, even if it doesn't really make a lot of sense. I would have loved an Orion background character. But Orions being the main antagonists 1000 years in the future? Well that's boring. The return of the Breen was certainly handled better. But again, they missed their chance to make their own mark, and introduce their own, cool new aliens to the franchise. Instead they just crafted their idea onto an existing hole on the franchise, kinda' devaluing both.

 

[Rahul]

And the second (and major) sin of the episode: I care way more about canon lore (the Breen) and set usage (ISS Enterprise) than any of the main plot points and character developments or backstories in this episode.

 

[Tuskin38]

Disc has borrowed from novels a fair amount, mainly Control.

The control in DSC was essentially nothing like the control from the books.

 

[fireproof78]

I think it's mainly because my biggest gripe with modern Trek had always been that it tries to be more of a gap filler for 90s Trek, instead of just throwing it's own ideas on the screen. And even if they have new ideas (like here), they always try to connect it to previous canon, even if it doesn't really make a lot of sense. I would have loved an Orion background character. But Orions being the main antagonists 1000 years in the future? Well that's boring. The return of the Breen was certainly handled better. But again, they missed their chance to make their own mark, and introduce their own, cool new aliens to the franchise. Instead they just crafted their idea onto an existing hole on the franchise, kinda' devaluing both.

Because that's not what is rewarded. What's rewarded right now by views is filling in gaps.

I personally enjoyed Book and Burnham and La'ak and Moll more than the Breen, but that's me.

 

[Nerys Myk]

"I bet it's going to be difficult for Moll and L'ak to escape now."
"Actually it's going to be super easy, barely an inconvenience."
"Oh really?"
"Yeah, they make their getaway in the ship's warp pod."
"Warp pod? Is that a thing?"
"It is now."

Warp pods are tight.

 

[Quantum21]

Jelly Breens. Carlos Cisco the co-writer of this episode has some answers.

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[Cr0sis21]

And the second (and major) sin of the episode: I care way more about canon lore (the Breen) and set usage (ISS Enterprise) than any of the main plot points and character developments or backstories in this episode.

The plot kind of sets it up that way. We're looking for clues, but we already know the answer. Therefore, the clues themselves aren't revealing anything of interest, so the only way to drum up interest is with things like "Oh, it's a soong type android! Oh hey, the Trill! Oh, the Promellians! Hey cool, the ISS Enterprise!"
Which is nice, but those things have to do the heavy lifting of what the plot normally does.
We know, on a macro level, that they are trying to reach a weapon. We know, on a micro level, that we will not see that weapon Iin the next 3 or 4 episodes,at least. So any tension and mystery has to cone from "what is the location of the clue?", and if it doesn't have a connection to a previous Trek thing, it will fall flat.

 

[Quantum21]

Because that's not what is rewarded. What's rewarded right now by views is filling in gaps.

I personally enjoyed Book and Burnham and La'ak and Moll more than the Breen, but that's me.

A strong part of the story for sure. There definitely was a connection and chemistry there. The background with the Breen just enhanced the tension more for me. It feels like a tragedy in the making.