Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 5x04 - "Face the Strange"

[fireproof78]

I'm glad the bridge crew work for you. Truly. They're kind of meh for me.

They work because they are meh. Life is full of meh people.

I'd modify that somewhat. I think you do need to be an extremely qualified officer to be assigned to the bridge. However, I guess that doesn't mean you need to have an interesting personality!

Agreed. I can be, and no many people who are, highly proficient at their jobs, but are not dynamic or necessarily interesting to talk to from an average person's point of view. One of my friends is extremely smart around technology and data analysis, and streamlines systems to be more efficient. He would be top tier in terms of putting him on a bridge to manage operations. Would he be interesting from a drama point of view? Probably not.

 

[UssGlenn]

Look, The Disco bridge crew falls into a odd No mans land. In TNG the seat fillers never got more to say much more than Aye Sir. So you didn't even notice if the same actor was there for 50 episodes. They gave the Disco bridge crew more lines and scenes off the bridge, so of course people want to know more about them than the TNG background crew. Normally, recognizable=important, but not on Discovery.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I'd modify that somewhat. I think you do need to be an extremely qualified officer to be assigned to the bridge. However, I guess that doesn't mean you need to have an interesting personality!

To paraphrase Elton John and Bernie Taupin: It's just their job five days a week. I'm sure every person and every job on the ship requires highly qualified officers. Most are probably crossed trained. So I don't know if bridge officers are that "special".

 

[Nerys Myk]

Look, The Disco bridge crew falls into a odd No mans land. In TNG the seat fillers never got more to say much more than Aye Sir. So you didn't even notice if the same actor was there for 50 episodes. They gave the Disco bridge crew more lines and scenes off the bridge, so of course people want to know more about them than the TNG background crew. Normally, recognizable=important, but not on Discovery.

Sounds like TOS.

 

[Cr0sis21]

You can't complain about sidelining characters and then turn around and demand a character be sidelined.
Obviously the showrunners like the character of Adira. They like the representation. They like the concept of found family.

That's the problem. Adira and Gray are all about "representation" and pretty much nothing else.
I'm not asking, at this point, that the character be sidelined. I'm complaining that the character was created at all. You keep moving the goalposts here, but at the end of the day the point is that there was no reason from a creative standpoint to do it that way. You can disagree, but the at the end of the day: The series was canceled. And without warning. So, clearly, the story they WANTED to tell did not engage enough people to keep the show going. And I believe Adira and Gray are a big symptom of why.

 

[fireproof78]

We don't know why it was cancelled, beyond money, so that's a rather interesting assumption.

Lower Decks is also cancelled, yet I'm told here they did a better job than Discovery. Perhaps they didn't engage enough either?

 

[Nerys Myk]

That's the problem. Adira and Gray are all about "representation" and pretty much nothing else.
I'm not asking, at this point, that the character be sidelined. I'm complaining that the character was created at all. You keep moving the goalposts here, but at the end of the day the point is that there was no reason from a creative standpoint to do it that way. You can disagree, but the at the end of the day: The series was canceled. And without warning. So, clearly, the story they WANTED to tell did not engage enough people to keep the show going. And I believe Adira and Gray are a big symptom of why.

I've enjoyed some of the Adira and Gray bits. Often despite some of the acting involved. And there's nothing wrong with representation for the sake of representation. Trek has got some milage out of that. (No scare quotes needed)
My "goalposts" are firmly in the endzone. You keep avoiding my questions, but I've answered yours.
Of course there was a "creative' reason to create the character. As I said it was part of the story they wanted to tell. It may not be one that engaged the audience (debatable), but that is a different matter. Now I can see a point to the idea that the character was pretty much done at the end of Season three. Maybe they should have said goodbye.
I've no idea why the series was canceled. I wasn't in the room. Might be ratings. Might be cost. Might just be "Five is good". Streaming is a new and different animal. Shows that go for seven, ten or more years are rare. Again, I don't know why it was canceled and neither do you. You want the reason to be what fits your narrative. I actually don't care why.

 

[fireproof78]

I've no idea why the series was canceled. I wasn't in the room. Might be ratings. Might be cost. Might just be "Five is good". Streaming is a new and different animal. Shows that go for seven, ten or more years are rare. Again, I don't know why it was canceled and neither do you. You want the reason to be what fits your narrative. I actually don't care why.

And we will never know the full answer. It's probably for the best since it really isn't in our power to decide, beyond watching the show.

nd there's nothing wrong representation or the sake of representation. Trek has got some milage out of that.

*Squints in Uhura and Sulu*

 

[SJGardner]

That's the problem. Adira and Gray are all about "representation" and pretty much nothing else.
I'm not asking, at this point, that the character be sidelined. I'm complaining that the character was created at all. You keep moving the goalposts here, but at the end of the day the point is that there was no reason from a creative standpoint to do it that way. You can disagree, but the at the end of the day: The series was canceled. And without warning. So, clearly, the story they WANTED to tell did not engage enough people to keep the show going. And I believe Adira and Gray are a big symptom of why.

How would a producer even know that a character would end up failing to meet expectations in advance? Your argument about Adira's mere existence as a useless mistake undeservedly stealing the objectively more worthy Detmer's or Owo's spotlight hinges upon them having ended up being wasted. There was no way the producers would've known that before the show aired. I am yet to hear of any rules of creative writing dictating that underdeveloped characters that the audience is (allegedly) intrigued by be fleshed out before new major characters can be added.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

What is their last name? As a host their last name is the name of their symbiont "Tal"

I think the intent was, what was Adira's last name before joining.

Assuming one exists. Adira could have only gone by that one name before the joining was achieved. IIRC, there are human characters in old Trek novels who freely admit they have only one name.

 

[SJGardner]

I think the intent was, what was Adira's last name before joining.

Assuming one exists. Adira could have only gone by that one name before the joining was achieved. IIRC, there are human characters in old Trek novels who freely admit they have only one name.

Funnily enough, was Jadzia's née last name ever revealed in canon? Did we ever learn the birth names of any of Dax's other hosts other than Joran Belar?

 

[Nerys Myk]

I think the intent was, what was Adira's last name before joining.

Assuming one exists. Adira could have only gone by that one name before the joining was achieved. IIRC, there are human characters in old Trek novels who freely admit they have only one name.

Sulu and Uhura only had one name for decades. Saru still only has one name. Who can say what the naming practices of a human society in the 32nd Century is?

 

[UssGlenn]

Funnily enough, was Jadzia's née last name ever revealed in canon? Did we ever learn the birth names of any of Dax's other hosts other than Joran Belar?

Just Ezri i think, it's Ezri Tigan

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Funnily enough, was Jadzia's née last name ever revealed in canon?

Not in canon, no.

In the novelverse her original last name was Idaris.

Did we ever learn the birth names of any of Dax's other hosts other than Joran Belar?

Canonically? Only Ezri's.

Again, the novelverse. In addition to Jadzia, we know the original last names of Lela (Yurani), Tobin (Fendus), Emony (Odaren) and Curzon (Antrani).

 

[Mr Awe]

They work because they are meh. Life is full of meh people..

Indubitably! But again TV show reasons apply to TV shows. So, life is filled with meh people, but most TV shows are not!
Here's to meh!

 

[Macintosh]

I think the intent was, what was Adira's last name before joining.

Assuming one exists. Adira could have only gone by that one name before the joining was achieved. IIRC, there are human characters in old Trek novels who freely admit they have only one name.

Sulu and Uhura only had one name for decades. Saru still only has one name. Who can say what the naming practices of a human society in the 32nd Century is?

There are human societies today where people only have one name, including Iceland (kind of), Bhutan, Javanese Indonesia, Mongolia, Myanmar, Tibet, and parts of India.

 

[fireproof78]

Indubitably! But again TV show reasons apply to TV shows. So, life is filled with meh people, but most TV shows are not!
Here's to meh!

I have no doubt I am in the minority of not minding meh people on TV.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Iceland (kind of)

IIRC, in Iceland your last name is your father's first name plus the suffix 'son' or 'dottir' as appropriate.

For example: My name is Brian and my father's name is Kenneth. So under Icelandic rules my name would be Brian Kennethsson.

I have no doubt I am in the minority of not minding meh people on TV.

Not as minority as you think.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

That's the problem. Adira and Gray are all about "representation" and pretty much nothing else.
I'm not asking, at this point, that the character be sidelined. I'm complaining that the character was created at all. You keep moving the goalposts here, but at the end of the day the point is that there was no reason from a creative standpoint to do it that way. You can disagree, but the at the end of the day: The series was canceled. And without warning. So, clearly, the story they WANTED to tell did not engage enough people to keep the show going. And I believe Adira and Gray are a big symptom of why.

It was actually most likely due to contracts. The actors were all due to renegotiate their contracts and be due a pay rise. That's part of the reason Starfleet academy was greenlit because the cast would be cheaper and reuse the 32nd century assets.

I think it's really bizarre to be against representation in a tv franchise built on representing the other, whether they be Russian, Japanese, black or LGBT. Like what the actual fuck do you think star trek is about?

 

[Macintosh]

IIRC, in Iceland your last name is your father's first name plus the suffix 'son' or 'dottir' as appropriate.

Hence the "kind of". In Iceland it's common to arrange alphabetical lists of people by their first name, because otherwise you're just looking up lists of people's father's names and that's really not terribly helpful.