Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 5x04 - "Face the Strange"

[Mr Awe]

The problem with time travel stories is they tend to fall into one of three camps:

• There are no paradoxes, because the future is as set as the past. This is a determinist universe where there is no doubt in the outcome. It can make for an interesting nihilistic premise for a story, but it makes for shit drama or adventure.
• The past/future are mutable, meaning essentially everything can be fixed with time travel, taking all of the potential tension out of any conflict. Problem next season with a bad guy? Just go back in time, and fix it! This is why I think Discovery never elaborated on the Spore Drive's ability to travel through time past Season 1.
• You event some arbitrary rules to limit time travel, which runs the risk of descending into nonsense technobabble (see everything involving the Red Angel).

I'd agree with all of that. That's why I think an entire series, or even an arc, the deals with deliberate attempts to change time would massively exacerbate those problems (although I think it would rule out the deterministic universe). Especially when those efforts are on the scale of a galactic war!

And how would you defend all of time? It's not just about traveling back in time to affect person X to avoid a specific outcome. You might go back and prevent a species from even starting. Or life from starting on a planet, Or preventing their planet from even forming. Etc. Those go to your last two points.

The latest Discovery actually did pretty good with avoiding paradoxes. Erasing the last loop and minimizing interactions with the crew in the previous loops. Although, Burnham should remember fighting herself.

 

[fireproof78]

You event some arbitrary rules to limit time travel, which runs the risk of descending into nonsense technobabble (see everything involving the Red Angel).

It's all nonsense. Might as well embrace it.

 

[eschaton]

The latest Discovery actually did pretty good with avoiding paradoxes. Erasing the last loop and minimizing interactions with the crew in the previous loops. Although, Burnham should remember fighting herself.

The last instance was a "bubble universe" which would be destroyed, as they said onscreen. If they interrupted the cycle mid-circuit, it essentially let them do whatever they wanted, which is why they stopped being clandestine.

Which is why, as I said, I was surprised they didn't bother to have downtime Michael killed. Why not, when nothing really matters within that universe other than getting rid of the time bug?

 

[Galaxy]

I half expected to see Airiam show up when they went back to the normal time, or some kind of thank you message from her, because of the change - but they stuck with the rule that no-one would remember within a cycle.

They seemed to be a bit inconsistant with that. If memory serves they did mention that they needed to be careful to not alter the timeline.

 

[UssGlenn]

This episode also answered the question about how the badge transporters work, it ties in with the ship's system, and is not self contained. Does that conflict with any past usage?

 

[cooleddie74]

No. And I'm glad this is the case because in my head canon it somehow makes more sense if a localized transporter buffer coordinates all the crew beam-ins and beam-outs.

 

[Discovery McDiscoveryFace]

This episode also answered the question about how the badge transporters work, it ties in with the ship's system, and is not self contained. Does that conflict with any past usage?

I'm sure I've seen it on planets. That being said, maybe a comparator might be something like internet browsing on a phone, that requires access to wifi in a fixed environment like a ship or building, or can work of some sort of 4g network. It would be like trying to use the internet on your movile phone if you and it went back to the mid 1990s

 

[Mr Awe]

The last instance was a "bubble universe" which would be destroyed, as they said onscreen. If they interrupted the cycle mid-circuit, it essentially let them do whatever they wanted, which is why they stopped being clandestine.

Which is why, as I said, I was surprised they didn't bother to have downtime Michael killed. Why not, when nothing really matters within that universe other than getting rid of the time bug?

Ah, I forgot that the Burnham vs. Burnham was in the last loop. Brain slip. So, not even that then. Yeah, they made it clear that nothing from that cycle would be carried forward.

The idea of going apeshit like that in the final cycle is logical. You didn't even need Burnham to convince the bridge crew, just phaser them! Or strategically sabotage the warp drive from engineering to burst the bubble. But having Raynar kill Burnham goes against his arc he was on, which is probably why they didn't do that. It would've been a dramatic moment for sure.

 

[mattman8907]

This episode reminded me of Voyager's Shattered. Where the Voyager is stuck in different Time periods.

 

[Macintosh]

This episode also answered the question about how the badge transporters work, it ties in with the ship's system, and is not self contained.

I always assumed this would be the case; how could a transporter rematerialise something if it itself was dematerialised? The transporter bandwidth, range, and speed of a starship of the 32nd century should be significantly greater than those of the 23rd or 24th centuries, but also clearly not so large that starships are no longer necessary.

Though I do question them trying to use their personal transporters as soon as they get a report that Discovery is experiencing a sudden and significant system malfunction instead of, you know, just walking through the door... have they never seen Star Trek before!?

 

[Tuskin38]

He's an Annari:

https://x.com/gaghyogi49/status/1781004770460995997

I knew those head ridges looked familiar.

 

[Nerys Myk]

All the talk about Voyager references is gonna send me to Memory Alpha. Drawing a blank on most of them .

 

[Photoman15]

A technical nitpick that didn't impinge upon my enjoyment.

Relativity doesn't come into play by breaking the warp bubble. Most theories of warp drive I've seen suggest that the ship isn't travel through space at faster than the speed of light, or even close to it. Instead, it distorts space around the ship.

So busting the bubble during warp shouldn't introduce any relativistic effects. It should just drop them out of warp and they'll be at their space normal speed.

And, even if you stipulate that it does somehow introduce those relativistic effects, both Discovery and the time bug are traveling at the exact same relative speeds so there would be no differential between them.

Clearly, the intent was to create a difficult task that forced Future Burnham to win over the Past Crew to accomplish to reinforce the theme of Raynar's arc about working together cooperatively. It did do that.

The differential was with the Time Bugs Time Acceleration Shield. That's why they did the Warp Drop

 

[Firebird]

The scripts this season keep getting better and better, I gotta say. “Face the Strange” ranks up there with the best-written episodes of Discovery. Tightly-plotted, good character beats, good dialogue, a feeling of closing the circle on character arcs.

It’s funny that, even though this wasn’t intended as the final season of the show, you really can’t have episodes like 504 and really make them work unless it’s closing time.

 

[Mr Awe]

The differential was with the Time Bugs Time Acceleration Shield. That's why they did the Warp Drop

If there are relativistic effects in that scenario (questionable), the idea was that they would counteract the shield. However, because the time bug and Discovery are all traveling at the same speed they might as well be standing still when they break the warp bubble. That situation is no different from a relativistic standpoint than when they originally tried to shut down the bug and failed.

 

[fireproof78]

Difficult stories can be great. But these difficulties really involve the mechanics of time travel taken to the nth degree. I'm not sure that's the type of difficulties many want in their stories. I mean, I could be wrong. And if they gave it a go, I'd watch it.

I mean, there are many shows I don't want to be written but just because it's hard is not a reason, to me.

Honestly, I think that finding a way to make the time wars stop, especially if it's something like the Organians telling them "Enough!" and setting up objects like the Guardian who can prevent it would be a great way to get rid of time travel forever.

 

[CrockAlley]

There are no paradoxes, because the future is as set as the past. This is a determinist universe where there is no doubt in the outcome. It can make for an interesting nihilistic premise for a story, but it makes for shit drama or adventure.

I think the limitations with this form of time travel exist only within the writer's imagination. It's been years, but I recall the 90s cartoon Gargoyles using this mechanic quite successfully.

 

[fireproof78]

I think the limitations with this form of time travel exist only within the writer's imagination. It's been years, but I recall the 90s cartoon Gargoyles using this mechanic quite successfully.

Macbeth and Magic make it possible.

And possibly go mad.

 

[IMC Headquarters]

Progenitor tech seems pretty weak sauce compared to the DMA from last season. All we see is Federation HQ in pieces and not transformed into, I dunno, a pod of space whales the size of Jupiter...

Yeesh! Payback's a bitch. Remind me not to cross Moll. Filthy lucre indeed.

Okay. Rayner's made of awesome. He's so awesome he brings down an Emerald Chain operative wearing a helmet with a single punch to said helmet!

Sonequa was marvelous in this story. She effortlessly slipped back into early Michael.

 

[fireproof78]

Okay. Rayner's made of awesome. He's so awesome he brings down an Emerald Chain operative wearing a helmet with a single punch to said helmet!

It's called the lackey helmet. Janeway encountered them a lot.