Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 4x11 - "Rosetta"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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I’ve been enjoying this season more than last, yet the mid-season break has killed the momentum and they’ve been struggling to get it back ever since. As many have noted, there doesn’t seem quite enough plot to stretch out to a whole season. They probably should have had a few more standalone type stories earlier in the season and then got the DMA/Species 10C plot into motion around the middle of the season.
That said, for all the complaints, this season has felt as quintessentially STAR TREK as Trek had been in many years. Very Trekkian themes, even if the execution has been patchy after a strong start to the season. But, as some have noted, DSC is a show that can never win. During the first two seasons it got criticised for its relentlessly fast pace. Now it gets criticised for being too slow. It got criticised for it having enough time spent on the inner life of characters and now it’s doing that too much. I sometimes wonder if the producers and writers have listened too much to the fans and a result DSC has lost something of the energy, edge and spark it had in the first two seasons (which weren’t perfect but were, in my view, much more engaging. If, as a writer, you end up second-guessing yourself all the time, you lose fidelity to your vision and end up creating something timid, and overly self conscious.
This season I’ve found there’s a little too much focus on the characters’ emotions, traumas and various PTSDs. It can get a little exhausting. Less is probably more. I can see what the writers have been aiming for this season: the DMA arc and the way it’s affecting the characters is very much their spin on the pandemic and the widespread trauma and conflict/division that has caused. It’s a decent idea, but how successfully it ultimately is…well, I guess will be determined by the final two episodes. Will it make the slow build worthwhile?
This was a decent enough episode, if frustrating because it doesnt advance the plot very much at this late stage. I did enjoy seeing the exploration of the alien planet and getting some hints about 10C (they are…big ass aliens). I like the theme of finding commonality throughout shared emotions and values even if it wasn’t particularly subtly done.
I really miss Mary Wiseman, tbh, and don’t find Adira a particularly compelling replacement, even though that’s how they have tried to style her character this season. Great to see Reno back, however; her every appearance is a snarky joy.
That said, for all the complaints, this season has felt as quintessentially STAR TREK as Trek had been in many years. Very Trekkian themes, even if the execution has been patchy after a strong start to the season. But, as some have noted, DSC is a show that can never win. During the first two seasons it got criticised for its relentlessly fast pace. Now it gets criticised for being too slow. It got criticised for it having enough time spent on the inner life of characters and now it’s doing that too much. I sometimes wonder if the producers and writers have listened too much to the fans and a result DSC has lost something of the energy, edge and spark it had in the first two seasons (which weren’t perfect but were, in my view, much more engaging. If, as a writer, you end up second-guessing yourself all the time, you lose fidelity to your vision and end up creating something timid, and overly self conscious.
This season I’ve found there’s a little too much focus on the characters’ emotions, traumas and various PTSDs. It can get a little exhausting. Less is probably more. I can see what the writers have been aiming for this season: the DMA arc and the way it’s affecting the characters is very much their spin on the pandemic and the widespread trauma and conflict/division that has caused. It’s a decent idea, but how successfully it ultimately is…well, I guess will be determined by the final two episodes. Will it make the slow build worthwhile?
This was a decent enough episode, if frustrating because it doesnt advance the plot very much at this late stage. I did enjoy seeing the exploration of the alien planet and getting some hints about 10C (they are…big ass aliens). I like the theme of finding commonality throughout shared emotions and values even if it wasn’t particularly subtly done.
I really miss Mary Wiseman, tbh, and don’t find Adira a particularly compelling replacement, even though that’s how they have tried to style her character this season. Great to see Reno back, however; her every appearance is a snarky joy.
Ever since Tilly left, the fun I had watching this show left for me as well I guess. Adira is a boring character.
I don't get the impression that the writing this season has been compromised to win over the fans (especially as a lot of those fans were complaining about Burnham being too emotional). Despite the fact that there's a team of writers, to me the season really feels like the work of one author with a strong vision of what it should be and what themes it should cover. I think they're telling the story they want to tell at the pace they want to tell it.
I really liked this episode, and I'm really liking this season as a whole. I'm not bothered by the slow pace or the emphasis on emotions. In fact, it kind of baffles me that Trek-fans would see both elements as negatives instead of positives. This season is taking a long time debating questions regarding communication, and I think it's not really about the grand story arch regarding the 10-C and the DMA: I think the moments in between are far more important. We've had so many great character arcs throughout, and I really think DSC is doing things no other ST series has ever done before: in that regard, I think DSC is the most unique, distinctive of all ST series. For some, it's for the worse, for me, it's for the better!
I think we all know how this season is going to end, and I think Michelle Paradise has hinted towards that months ago: the 10-C do not see humanoid life as sentient, just as we don't see a colony of ants as sentient when we're digging a hole in our garden. They are unaware of how their drilling for boronite affects us, but they will learn, by the end of episode 13. There is an awesome, truely Star Trek message and story in there, about understanding and finding a way to communicate. In essence, a season long Darmok/ (reversed) Home Soil hybrid.
I think we all know how this season is going to end, and I think Michelle Paradise has hinted towards that months ago: the 10-C do not see humanoid life as sentient, just as we don't see a colony of ants as sentient when we're digging a hole in our garden. They are unaware of how their drilling for boronite affects us, but they will learn, by the end of episode 13. There is an awesome, truely Star Trek message and story in there, about understanding and finding a way to communicate. In essence, a season long Darmok/ (reversed) Home Soil hybrid.
Novelists have the advantage of (usually) having no time constraints, so they can polish up rough drafts, go back and add foreshadowing once they know the end, that sort of thing. TV writing in contrast is on an extreme time constraint.
Something we can agree with is they shouldn't have written out Tilly.
Adira may be the most boring Trill character in Trek history. They just don't do anything with them.
Actually they're objectively one of the top three most interesting regular/recurring characters with a symbiont in them! But yeah the writers have really dropped the ball with them.
if you write the whole thing *before* you start filming you can eliminate much of this issue.
I wouldn't have minded if she left the show as the Starfleet Academy show was actually starting, but it seems to me it wouldn't have been too hard to throw in a couple of scenes with her on Disco in between filming the other show (if it is filming already). I miss my Tilly fix of optimism and sassy fun.
Well put.
If this is true, and I hope you are right, then this season will get a 10 out of 10 from me.
Jammer, in his review, pointed out that Episodes 10 and 11 of the season could've been combined. Though I said I don't mind the slow pace, it's been slower than normal...
... which leads me to wonder about this: 13 episodes might've been ordered for the season, but then they probably realized they only had 12 episodes' worth of material, so they probably decided to stretch out these two episodes. What if that's what happened?
I'll have a better sense once I know what the next episode is, and after I get a chance to watch all 13 episodes straight through on a binge.
It could be the reverse of Season 2, where they had a 13-episode order, but 14 episodes' worth of material, leading to "Such Sweet Sorrow" being split.
... which leads me to wonder about this: 13 episodes might've been ordered for the season, but then they probably realized they only had 12 episodes' worth of material, so they probably decided to stretch out these two episodes. What if that's what happened?
I'll have a better sense once I know what the next episode is, and after I get a chance to watch all 13 episodes straight through on a binge.
It could be the reverse of Season 2, where they had a 13-episode order, but 14 episodes' worth of material, leading to "Such Sweet Sorrow" being split.
Tilly was like having one of us on board. She was the fan's fan, getting to do things, not always the right things, but she was someone you had a connection with, just not someone you necessarily wanted to share a room with due to the snoring. They need to get her back asap.
Tilly being pulled so early was just a terrible idea. If you're not going to have Reno in every episode to make up for her missing humor then you need to make Culber or Adira or somebody the one to lighten the mood with McCoy-like comments reflecting how ludicrous or weird they see everything.
This is where I am at. I have a strong sense that the pacing is deliberately slowed, but for what reason I don't know. As I have mentioned, it feels very strongly like Netflix's Daredevil, where there is the call to action, and then more pause and self-reflection, before moving in to the big finale.
Taken apart, it can be quite uncomfortable. Taken as a whole, like I did with Daredevil, makes it way more enjoyable.
While it surprises me, and I thought I would miss Tilly more, I am really liking the ancillary and guest starts getting the focus. For me, that's really cool to get that variety of experiences, and it's really unique. Didn't expect that. I think Rilliak and Kovich are awesome. Kovich makes me laugh and I don't notice the characters who are absent.
There have been two episodes in the back half of the season with two directors, which is very unusual and suggests reshoots.
Another thing is, when Rillak was talking to the new guy about his saying "Don't screw it up," it feels like something that would normally, anywhere else, be a deleted scene. The fact that it's in there feels like they needed to take up time.
It was part of a three scene arc where he learned to alter his language in order to be more supportive. I don't know if I'd say it was crucial to the plot (we don't know what his character's point is yet), but it couldn't have been more relevant to the themes and messages.
I'd completely forgotten about the symbiont.
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