Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 4x04 - "All Is Possible"

[cooleddie74]

Linus, Adira and Gray need to be stuck in a Jefferies tube or on a ship somewhere and have to find a way to survive. That way the skills of all three come into play and we can learn more about Saurians and what their species brings to the table besides delicious alcoholic beverages and mucus!

 

[Vger23]

They need a "everyone else" bottle episode with the aforementioned plus Nillson, Linus, and Reno and none of the usual suspects.

Adira and Gray are third-tier characters. They've already spent a metric ass-ton of time on them compared to... where's Linus? Where the hell is RENO (love that character!) ?? Where are all the other third-tier characters that could also have had just as profound an impact on the story that haven't even had a single line of dialogue yet this season?

Edit: CV330 ninja'd me while I was writing this...

Yeah, I almost feel that "Short Treks" (which will likely not return now that they have a more full-slate of regular shows) would be needed just to flesh out these other characters correctly. I had completely forgotten about Reno, for example, who was introduced with such fanfare all the way back in S2...and then basically became an afterthought.

DSC would be better served if:

1. They focused on Burnham, Stamets, Culber, and Saru as the main cast, giving them the majority of focus, contribution, dialogue, and interplay.
2. Stopped trying to force Burnham into a romantic entanglements and focus any "relationship" stories on the existing characters of Stamets and Culber, who have a ton of material to build off of and actually could be meaningful and integral to our story lines.
3. Use Reno, Detmer, and Owo as secondary characters, in much the same way TOS used Chekov, Scotty and (to a lesser extent unfortunately) Uhura and Sulu.
4. Keep the others in the background as supporting players..., but not be focal to any particular story.

I guess now that Tilly is gone, you could bring her back occasionally like Wil Wheaton on TNG or (maybe more accurately) like Shran or some of DS9's players would pop in-and-out.

The issue is that DSC only has ~13 episodes to flesh characters out. You can't have 7-8 primary characters like TNG, DS9 etc because there just isn't enough time to give everyone something meaningful to contribute. So, focus on your "top 4" and then fill in as needed with the other tiers.

 

[XCV330]

I get the feeling Paradise really wants the Adira/Grey thing to work as a storyline, and I think a good deal of the audience would too. But it has to be well written, which has been flat-curve lackluster this season. I think Blue del Barrio and Ian Alexander (the latter did tremendous work in The OA, though rarely sharing a scene with Jason Isaacs) both are good enough actors to make it interesting but they have to have something to work with

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

What exactly does Gray DO, anyway? Did he have a job before he died? Was he in the Trill military or something? What's he gonna end up doing on Discovery, other than stand around and stare longingly at Adira?

I admit I'm kind of curious why Gray sorta looks like a ninja now.

 

[XCV330]

What exactly does Gray DO, anyway? What kind of person was he? Did he have a job before he died? Was he in the Trill military or something?

I admit I'm kind of curious why Gray sorta looks like a ninja now.

Someone must be on the bridge to defend against space-nun-truth-pirates, and what better person than a Synthetic Trill Ninja Ghost.

Even in a millennium where you can think "phaser" and one insta-pops into your hand, at least for Tilly, it is impossible to defend yourself on the bridge from Space-Nun-Truth-Pirates (who will instakill you with their stabby sword, and no doctor can help you) unless you have a Synthetic-Trill-Ninja-Ghost and fortunately Disco has one.


Oh god, nothing I just wrote is actually out of context for this show, anymore. It's become it's own YouTube comment section.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Adira and Gray are third-tier characters. They've already spent a metric ass-ton of time on them compared to... where's Linus? Where the hell is RENO (love that character!) ?? Where are all the other third-tier characters that could also have had just as profound an impact on the story that haven't even had a single line of dialogue yet this season?

Edit: CV330 ninja'd me while I was writing this...

2 episodes we haven't even seen the bridge or any of the bridge crew. Linus was playing cards in "10-Forward" when Culber was in there (in the opening monologue). And I just noticed something I missed in 2 full watchings, there's a Ferengi bartender!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Pity that DSC's version of the 3000-era doesn't have the ultra-advanced medical technology that the novelverse does.

In @Christopher's "Department of Temporal Investigations" novels, for example, there's scenes set in pretty much the same era that DSC is now in, except with far more advanced medical technology. It's almost impossible to actually die (or, as they call it, "finalkill") there. People can even turn themselves into holograms if they want.

 

[XCV330]

I don't know why they took the story into the future if they weren't prepared to embrace the concept.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't know why they took the story into the future if they weren't prepared to embrace the concept.

It was more to get away from canon limits than a new era to explore. The tech is always going to be limited by the plot, regardless of era.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

1. They focused on Burnham, Stamets, Culber, and Saru as the main cast, giving them the majority of focus, contribution, dialogue, and interplay.
2. Stopped trying to force Burnham into a romantic entanglements and focus any "relationship" stories on the existing characters of Stamets and Culber, who have a ton of material to build off of and actually could be meaningful and integral to our story lines.
3. Use Reno, Detmer, and Owo as secondary characters, in much the same way TOS used Chekov, Scotty and (to a lesser extent unfortunately) Uhura and Sulu.
4. Keep the others in the background as supporting players..., but not be focal to any particular story.

1. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
2. I like Book, but as a foil for Michael (as well as a romantic interest), he needs to have his own life, not just be along for the ride.
3. Most of the bridge crew don't have the acting chops to serve for the basis of deep narratives. I like the time Owo got in New Eden, and Detmer had good moments dealing with trauma. However, that's about as much as they can be stretched. The actors were cast to be regular faces at particular moments. They can't be expected to drive the drama without more growth.
4. If Discovery were pumping out 26 episodes a year, everyone could have their 30-45 minutes in the limelight.

The issue is that DSC only has ~13 episodes to flesh characters out. You can't have 7-8 primary characters like TNG, DS9 etc because there just isn't enough time to give everyone something meaningful to contribute. So, focus on your "top 4" and then fill in as needed with the other tiers

Halving seasons doesn't automatically improve quality. It means more choices need to be made and storytelling must be more economical. I don't know what they intend to do with Adira and Grey, but we haven't seen a lot of emotional range from either actor. They work best as objects for Culber and Stamets' affection; when the two older characters aren't present, the level of drama drops significantly.

 

[XCV330]

It was more to get away from canon limits than a new era to explore. The tech is always going to be limited by the plot, regardless of era.

It doesn't have to be.
Science fiction (and before anyone jumps in with a smug "Star Trek is not science fiction," it is. It's supposed to be. Call it space opera, if you prefer, but we know both know what the genre is and you're not fooling anyone, and you're not that clever. consider that a pre-empt to avoid wasting time), can do many things. It can challenge our ideas of what it means to be who we are, it can use advanced and theoretical technology to hold a mirror up to ourselves and to society. It can be a really great goddamned adventure vehicle. It can inspire the very people who will make the next technological breathroughs that post-industrial civilization needs to survive.

What it shouldn't do is be lazy comfort food. It can be, but it shouldn't. The showrunner had to approve the call to put Star Trek in a new era 1000 years away. To act like we reach a technological plateau that won't be expanded upon is incredibly depressing, unless instead we are shown that there is a "Dark Age" that the galaxy is recovering from. The latter has been hinted at but not really enunciated. Mostly I'll chalk it up to sheer laziness. It's easier to just keep writing the same thing over and over. ENT had the same problem. It could have been something different, but the showrunners and writers knew how to do 90's era Trek and stayed on those rails till the tracks ran out.

 

[fireproof78]

What it shouldn't do is be lazy comfort food. It

This appears to be what fans want or at least more safe and familiar. At least the more vocal ones.

 

[Pindar]

I liked it better than last week, my main beef is lack of the bridge crew who I am far more invested in that Adira or Gray.

I use to really like Tilly but don't like the character change. If she is leaving then that is a shame. I would rather they promoted her on to another ship than have her totally change her focus and head off to the academy though.

 

[Vger23]

This appears to be what fans want or at least more safe and familiar. At least the more vocal ones.

Agree.

Just don’t count me in that boat. I’d much rather they take significant tonal and structural risks

 

[fireproof78]

Agree.

Just don’t count me in that boat. I’d much rather they take significant tonal and structural risks

Same here. There's a reason why Season 1 was so enjoyable for me, and I was at least curious about the Season 3 jump. But, by and large, the trend I observed is giving in to the most vocal complains centered around Discovery and making it more "like Star Trek." It's telling to me that in the current season a popular comment I see around is "it feels like Star Trek!" indicating (to me at least) a return to the episodic, problem of the week, problem solved, style of series past.

 

[Vger23]

Same here. There's a reason why Season 1 was so enjoyable for me, and I was at least curious about the Season 3 jump. But, by and large, the trend I observed is giving in to the most vocal complains centered around Discovery and making it more "like Star Trek." It's telling to me that in the current season a popular comment I see around is "it feels like Star Trek!" indicating (to me at least) a return to the episodic, problem of the week, problem solved, style of series past.

I always say that the Star Trek which interests me the most is the stuff that was / is different and takes risks and strays from the tried-and-true format. It doesn’t always hit the mark…but I definitely find that approach far more interesting than just another typical Star Trek story, especially if it’s a story that could just as easily been told have been told in another genre. At least DSC isn’t giving us courtroom dramas, police procedurals, and medical dramas.

Again, I love the franchise…but we have more than 750 hours of mosty the same formula / tone / approach. I was always on the side of the team when they were trying to show a different side of Trek. It’s worth the warts to see them stretch it out. At least to me.

 

[137th Gebirg]

What exactly does Gray DO, anyway? Did he have a job before he died? Was he in the Trill military or something? What's he gonna end up doing on Discovery, other than stand around and stare longingly at Adira?

I admit I'm kind of curious why Gray sorta looks like a ninja now.

I actually kind of like Gray's look now, TBH, but forcing the story to continuously give him and Adira something to do inorganically for the sake of gratuitous screen time at the expense of other potentially interesting characters seems folly to me - YMMV. As @Vger23 mentioned, I, too, am afraid many of those other characters may get relegated to the Short Treks minis to get some more back-story. That is, provided they start doing them again. The most recent hiatus between seasons was oddly bereft of them and I found them to be quite effective.

As for Gray's history, I vaguely remember thinking that he was a Starfleet Admiral or some kind of flag officer who had critical information regarding [Burnham Loud Whisper]The Buuuuuuuuurn[/Burnham Loud Whisper]. That backstory seems to have had a shockingly short shelf life, for obvious reasons, and has had no meaningful follow-up since the end of last season, outside what Eddie referred to as "Hallmark Channel" fare interactions with Adira. An exceptionally apt description. The writers should either come up with something new and powerful for Gray to do or just send him on Tilly's shuttle back to the Academy to teach or something and start getting back to the galaxy-crushing anomaly plot.

 

[eschaton]

If they do even half with Adira and Gray what they've done with Michael and Saru's friendship this thing can become something very deep and special. But that's the problem. We already have lots of background characters who aren't getting enough screen time and development and they might not care about doing so.

TBH, this is why I think Tilly leaving might be a good idea. Less cast members means that each one left has more chance of actually having something substantive.

I'd actually argue Stamets needs to be dialed way back as well - probably to a supporting character. I mean, we are four seasons in, and his characterization has barely deepened beyond "gay, grumpy guy who is really into spores." Okay, he looks at Adira like an adoptive child but even with that, he's sort of running in circles, and mostly spitting technobabble. Worse, his original intended role on the ship (the expert in the spore drive) has been so circumscribed now they just sort of write him into "general science dude" so he has something to do.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Agreed. Stamets seems to be an almost irredeemably clingy, obsessively controlling and broken person on many levels, who has shown little-to-no character growth. Maybe he's too close to Culber to have any of that counseling mojo rub off on him, but I know if I had a partner who acted like that all the time around other people, I think I would probably break it off pretty damn ricky-tick.

 

[JoaquinSlowly]

‪‪I disagree that Stamets is that one note, ‪‪I feel like the character, primarily through relating to others, has a very established personality. And worth mentioning, Adira is his adoptive child, not daughter.