Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x13 - "That Hope Is You, Part 2"

[Slugboy]

That doesn't mean much, Harry Kim has been in charge of the bridge many times but Janeway still kept him an ensign for the whole seven years. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if she had kept him that way for the twenty-six years it took them to get back in the other timeline and was only promoted AFTER their return.

Ensign Kim was only in charge of the bridge during night shifts, when the regular command crew were asleep, and that was only because he volunteered. Nilsson seems to be in charge whenever Saru and the XO-du-jour are awake but just off the bridge.

Back in the TNG days, Dr. Crusher would also volunteer for night shifts (see the episode "Thine Own Self"), although she had already taken what was then called the "Bridge Officer's test" to become a full Commander.

It's possible that Nilsson isn't technically qualified to serve as XO, in that she's an engineer who was only given the Conn because of her rank and seniority amongst the bridge crew. Tilly might be the only one, besides Saru and Burnham, who was enrolled in the Command Training Program and could theoretically take Command officially.

That's possible. Though I should point out that in TNG, Data was the ship's Second Officer (see the TNG episode "The Defector", where Data does a "second officer's log"), despite being in the Operations division like Nilsson is. Though he was a Lieutenant Commander vs. Nilsson, who was just a Lieutenant. In TOS, I think Scotty was second officer, since he was always sitting in the Captain's chair while Kirk and Spock were off having adventures.

Of course, I imagine the real out-of-show reason is that the actress who plays Tilly is in the opening credits, and it wouldn't make much sense to give a background actor such a dominant role.

 

[jackoverfull]

More than making LIEUTENANT Picard Captain of the Stargazer?

I don't think this is canon.

Ferris seems to have some authority to make Kirk abandon the search and invokes the regulation that allows him to do so.

Kirk has orders to proceed to the plagued planet in a given time and does so, albeit very slowly, if I remember correctly Ferris can relieve him or order him to jump to warp only at the moment it becomes clear he's failing to fulfill that task. In any case, nowhere in the episode Kirk disregards his orders, he only follows them very slowly.

Fox actually does have command authority
"FOX: I have my orders, Captain, and now you have yours. You will proceed on course. Achieve orbit status and just leave the rest to me. You're well aware that my mission gives me the power of command. I now exercise it. You will proceed on course. That's a direct order."

And he does it, doesn't he?

LURRY: Captain Kirk, this is Nilz Baris. He's out from Earth to take charge of the development project on Sherman's Planet.
KIRK: And that gives you the authority to put an entire quadrant on defence alert?
DARVIN: Mister Baris is the Federation Undersecretary in Charge of Agricultural Affairs in this quadrant.
SPOCK; That gives him the authority."

The authority to send the emergency signal, *not* to order Kirk around. Even at the end, when everything seems lost and Beris is exrtemely angry at Kirk he says he'll complain to the federation and have others have him removed from command or something like that, but he can't touch Kirk directly or make him do anything without involving Kirk's superiors.

Seems to be gray area though, Decker is the senior officer and has a legitimate claim to command. Kirk as the current CO does too, but isn't on the ship. So I think it qualifies as disobeying a superior officer.

You might think that, Spock, who in the very episode backed Decker's authority up to that point against his best judgement, was fine with it.

In the 24th, red IS the command color.

…And what did I wrote?

 

[Discofan]

I've just noticed something funny. Do you realize that in order to pass the bridge officer test, Deanna HAD TO order (holo) Geordi to basically do what they were all trying to prevent Spock from doing about a hundred years before, IE sacrifice himself to save the ship! It looks like the morals of Starfleet have somewhat shifted over the years... They've become more callous for one thing...

 

[ScottJ85]

But, that didn't make the resolution satisfying for me.

I honestly didn't find the resolution to the mystery all that satisfying, but I did say I wanted something unexpected completely out of left field and I guess that's what I got.

I did, however, find the character interactions it led to very satisfying.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I wish I had Su'kal's holodeck so I could bring my imaginary friend out to play. Been decades since I saw him last...

He lost your address.

 

[Noname Given]

I've just noticed something funny. Do you realize that in order to pass the bridge officer test, Deanna HAD TO order (holo) Geordi to basically do what they were all trying to prevent Spock from doing about a hundred years before, IE sacrifice himself to save the ship! It looks like the morals of Starfleet have somewhat shifted over the years... They've become more callous for one thing...

The point of the test was to see if she would be able to order someone to their death IF necessary.

And you're forgetting the situation in Star Trek II. Kirk was not aware of the situation in engineering. He fully believed there was crew available to fix whatever was needed to be fixed. Kirk never ordered Spock to do anything. Spock took it upon himself to go down to engineering survey the situation, And once she knew there was no one with the technical knowledge available to go into the chamber to do what needed to be done (Plus the fact that whoever went in to do it would die of radiation poisoning); made the personal decision to sacrifice himself for the rest of the ship.

Kirk probably would have ordered Spock or someone else to do it (or possibly would have sacrificed himself).

But in the end there's no "change in policy" between the 23rd and 24th centuries with respect to a superior officer having to order someone else to their death in order to save others.

 

[Anduinel]

So how did you feel when Picard machine-gunned two of his crewmen that had just been assimilated?

That he was expressing his Borg-related trauma in a very fucked up and hypocritical manner, with a side of ego. But, then, that was the point.

 

[ScottJ85]

That he was expressing his Borg-related trauma in a very fucked up and hypocritical manner, with a side of ego. But, then, that was the point.

I always thought that was a bit out of character for him. We've seen him dealing with that trauma much more positively in the show, but movies and TV shows operate according to different rules, and it made for a good scene.

 

[Lord Garth]

Here's the link: https://us04web.zoom.us/j/76972142585?pwd=eU1BWWhRSU1WTmRkYUlTc1EwSkZ0dz09

Link 2: https://us04web.zoom.us/j/77152936419?pwd=R0JoZk5QSnB0MXBybDZkanQzTTc4QT09

 

[Nerys Myk]

I always thought that was a bit out of character for him. We've seen him dealing with that trauma much more positively in the show, but movies and TV shows operate according to different rules, and it made for a good scene.

Action Picard with Kung Fu Grip TM

 

[Anduinel]

I always thought that was a bit out of character for him. We've seen him dealing with that trauma much more positively in the show, but movies and TV shows operate according to different rules, and it made for a good scene.

Yeah, the movies did some walking back on character development covered in the show (Picard's progress re: the Borg, Data's understanding of human behavior) so they could cover it again. But in this case, I thought it was worth it just to see actors of Sir Patrick and Woodard's caliber go toe-to-toe later.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Then having the radiation damage appear through the holo skins was complete nonsense. The holo can cover a Kelpian not only to look like a human PLUS affect Saru's leg/foot structure to where even he could feel a difference walking, could provide a holo skin for Gray who is literally only a little more than a figment of imagination/memory of a previous host... But said holo can't hide radiation burns?

I assumed the radiation burns showing on the holo-skins was just due to the degradation of the holo-system. It's mentioned a numerous times that the holo is already pretty damaged and in disrepair when the away team arrive.

 

[jackoverfull]

I always thought that was a bit out of character for him. We've seen him dealing with that trauma much more positively in the show, but movies and TV shows operate according to different rules, and it made for a good scene.

to be honest he never went face to face with he borg again so hard in TNG. In First Contact the Enterprise was the last human ship from the 24th century and Picard was losing it, his feelings did feel believable to me.

 

[Jellico]

Ross was 100% "gray area", but not "bad". Admiral Paris was a good guy. Nechayev wasn't "bad", but maybe a little high strung at times.

I always liked Nechayev. She really insulted Riker. I’m thinking of Chain of Command? Not that I doing like Riker, I just liked the dramatic tension.

 

[Dryson]

I always liked Nechayev. She really insulted Riker. I’m thinking of Chain of Command? Not that I doing like Riker, I just liked the dramatic tension.

Riker always needed a female dominance to put him in his place given his dominance over most women that he encountered.

The show will get really interesting from this season on.

Word of the defeat of Osyraa at the hands of Discovery, a ship from 900 + years in the past has most likely already made its way through the Orion Network and into, scrupulous hands. Hands, that even after 900 + years still want to see the Federation fall, more so now that everything about L'rell's past including Boreth, has been a lie.

A lie, that will be more devastating to the galaxy then even the Burn was...

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Osyraa transported everyone else to starfleet HQs as a goodwill gesture in the previous episode.

I don't recall that, when did she do that?

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I rated 7.

It’s a tough call. For the story they chose, execution was excellent. There’s just a few disappointments. The Burn was caused by something that’d be a great standalone episode but had nothing to do with the rest of the story. Then they handwaved the Emerald Chain having it crumble to pieces offscreen. Really, no successor who may or may not be open to reason and might be a capitalist rival to the Federation?

 

[JirinPanthosa]

The only grey thing Ross ever did was collaborate with section 31 that one time to install a Federation operative in the Romulan senate. Besides that he was 100% white hat.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I don't recall that, when did she do that?

When she and Vance are negotiating.

 

[ScottJ85]

to be honest he never went face to face with he borg again so hard in TNG

Fair point.