Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x14 - "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2"

[Agony_Boothb]

How? It doesn't have magic powers. This is just stupid. In the history of Trek we have seen countless times people fighting tooth and nail in effort to stop a ship from being destroyed. There are countless ways to break them. And idea that having some data on the hard drive could somehow prevent all of them is just utterly ludicrous.

Except they didn't get just data. It's implied from the outset that the Sphere itself is sentient to some degree. It makes attempts to contact the crew and later actively saves Discovery from getting caught in the explosion when it finally self-destructs. It's also 100,000 years old, there's no telling what it may have learned in order to protect itself from destruction.

 

[Longinus]

Emergence (TNG S7E23) involved the Enterprise-D's computer developing self-awareness and running amuck. At several points the crew were unable to control the ship's speed, bring it out of warp, or do any other reasonable things you'd expect because so much of the ship is dependent on computer control.

The Foresaken (DS9 S1E17) the space station suffers from similar control problems due to an intelligent computer virus taking over key systems, known as 'pup'. This too began with a download of data from an alien probe that came through the wormhole.

The situation is quite different if your objective is to regain the control of preferably intact ship/station than merely destroy the whole thing.

My guess is, they didn't just get data. They got consciousness as well. It's good at disguising itself and is living quietly in the corner of Discovery's systems meddling in ways that prevent it from getting erased.

And none of this gives it magic powers. It cannot do things the ship normally couldn't.

But the consciousness is the one angle via which they could have made this to work. It would have made a great trekkian episode if they had realised that the data has merged with the Discovery and it is now a sentient being. In the end it wouldn't have been about them not being to able to destroy the ship, but not wanting to kill a living being. This I would have bought.

 

[DaveyNY]

Because that's not how the story was written.

 

[Longinus]

Because that's not how the story was written.

Yes, I know. The story was written badly.

 

[DaveyNY]

... In Your Opinion

I disagree

 

[Starflight]

We could have done with a few lines explaining why obvious solutions are not viable. Destroy or disable the warp core, fly or tractor-beam the ship into a sun, just keep shooting it with the Enterprise until it runs out of power, place charges around the ship and then beam off to detonate them, and whatever else.

They wouldn't even have to be good explanations, just acknowledgements that these options exist and can't be done for whatever reason.

 

[oberth]

The situation is quite different if your objective is to regain the control of preferably intact ship/station than merely destroy the whole thing.

And none of this gives it magic powers. It cannot do things the ship normally couldn't.

But the consciousness is the one angle via which they could have made this to work. It would have made a great trekkian episode if they had realised that the data has merged with the Discovery and it is now a sentient being. In the end it wouldn't have been about them not being to able to destroy the ship, but not wanting to kill a living being. This I would have bought.

for picard or janeway - this is prekirk

 

[Longinus]

... In Your Opinion

I disagree

Obviously. I still don't see the reasoning though. It is pretty damn obvious that the motivation for the time jump is super weak, especially after the Control is neutralised. Nor did it make sense why they were still pushing for the time jump when the Control was still on board. Or that the suit made seven jumps when in the last episode it was explicitly told it could make only one. This is just sloppy writing.

 

[Starflight]

for picard or janeway - this is prekirk

You mean the not wanting to kill thing? The Federation is pretty clearly committed to nonviolence in this time period as well. Kirk couldn't even bring himself to kill an illusion of Wyatt Earp, and in TAS he's worried that it's immoral to destroy a huge cloud entity which is about to obliterate the Enterprise and a heavily populated planet.

 

[dinzy]

Once again I feel the need to point out that there were multiple blast doors in the area of the torpedo. It's in the dialogue. Only one didn't come down to protect the ship as ordered remotely. That's why Cornwell and Number One had to go down there to try to fix the problem. If the last door was closed and did its job, the damage would be mitigated. That's what they said. It was the whole PLOT POINT. They took some dramatic license in allowing Pike to be right there and be able to see the explosion, absolutely. But it wasn't just one door.

The torpedo pierced a hole in the ship. Even with all the other doors there were gaps. Let's just assume that they got lucky and there was enough blast shielding in the areas that included the door to keep the lift and bridge protected. For the most part it is consistent and believable.

 

[Amasov]

What worries me is, they traveled into the future to avoid being found by Leland. But, his remains are on board Discovery and have gone to the future with them.

 

[Amasov]

The torpedo pierced a hole in the ship. Even with all the other doors there were gaps. Let's just assume that they got lucky and there was enough blast shielding in the areas that included the door to keep the lift and bridge protected. For the most part it is consistent and believable.

Sort of makes me wonder where those blast doors were during The Wrath of Khan.

 

[oberth]

You mean the not wanting to kill thing? The Federation is pretty clearly committed to nonviolence in this time period as well. Kirk couldn't even bring himself to kill an illusion of Wyatt Earp, and in TAS he's worried that it's immoral to destroy a huge cloud entity which is about to obliterate the Enterprise and a heavily populated planet.

unfortunately tas is canon - i hate it (it's the way it is drawn. reminds me of the jetsons). i can't say anything about the stories as i don't know them. i tried several times to watch them, never made it past the 10 minutes mark.

if kirk acted under picard's rules he needed to be court martialed every other episode.

 

[Longinus]

What worries me is, they traveled into the future to avoid being found by Leland. But, his remains are on board Discovery and have gone to the future with them.

Not only that, they were fully committed to going to the future when he was still alive and well and freely roaming on the ship!

 

[CommanderRaytas]

We could have done with a few lines explaining why obvious solutions are not viable. Destroy or disable the warp core, fly or tractor-beam the ship into a sun, just keep shooting it with the Enterprise until it runs out of power, place charges around the ship and then beam off to detonate them, and whatever else.

They wouldn't even have to be good explanations, just acknowledgements that these options exist and can't be done for whatever reason.

You know, I actually appreciated the distinct lack of technobabble and hand-holding. For me, what I got was enough to fill in the blanks. That's a matter of taste, though, in the end. Not saying I'm right. It just worked for me.

 

[Starflight]

unfortunately tas is canon - i hate it (it's the way it is drawn. reminds me of the jetsons). i can't say anything about the stories as i don't know them. i tried several times to watch them, never made it past the 10 minutes mark.

if kirk acted under picard rules he needed to be court martialed every other episode.

It varies on the writer, but I think a lot of TOS supports the idea that the Federation is as non-violent as possible and has been since its foundation. From The Squire of Gothos, Kirk says:

Our missions are peaceful — not for conquest. When we do battle, it is only because we have no choice.

And in Spock's Brain:

No one may kill a man. Not for any purpose. It cannot be condoned.

And it seems like their protocols even in war are to cause minimal harm - Kirk offers to save the Romulan crew at the end of Balance of Terror, they make sure to incapacitate rather than kill the Klingon guards in Errand of Mercy, etc.

The Sphere Data being alive and sentient could have definitely worked as a plot point as to why Discovery can't be destroyed - I can't see Pike authorising murder.

 

[oberth]

You know, I actually appreciated the distinct lack of technobabble and hand-holding. For me, what I got was enough to fill in the blanks. That's a matter of taste, though, in the end. Not saying I'm right. It just worked for me.

me too. but let's be honest i wouldnt accept it in a detection story

 

[SolarisOne]

You know, I actually appreciated the distinct lack of technobabble and hand-holding. For me, what I got was enough to fill in the blanks. That's a matter of taste, though, in the end. Not saying I'm right. It just worked for me.

I like technobabble, but hate hand-holding.

 

[oberth]

The Sphere Data being alive and sentient could have definitely worked as a plot point as to why Discovery can't be destroyed - I can't see Pike authorising murder.

they don't even discuss whether it's sentient, do they?

with picard in pike's shoes they senior stuff would sit at a conference table to do exactly that for at least half an hour. jeordie technobabbling through 200 years of (from our pov) yet to be made computer history.

damnit, picard would have saved m5.

 

[SolarisOne]

they don't even discuss whether it's sentient, do they?

Nope. It never even came up, even though they realized that the data had will and volition enough to protect itself. In retrospect, that's the weakest part of the entire finale.