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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x10 - "The Red Angel"

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I'd actually argue that this episode proves it's not all about Michael - it's all about her mom.

I mean, of course Michael's mother will intervene to try and save her life. She's one of the handful of people in the universe who would do that. Thus, this is a sign that she isn't special. At least so far. She might don the suit later on in the season. The other part of this is the plan to defeat Control, which appears to be pretty much independent of Michael (so far) except for the fact that her mom discovered it when she skipped into the future.
 
Maybe. As I said, my main issue was the ambiguity in how the shot was framed. I feel like Leland was basically in the right in this, and Burnham was in the wrong. But I was left wondering if that was the intent of the script, or just my own interpretation of the scene.
I think if Leland was telling that story to Burnham about his role in the deaths of someone else's parents, Burnham would have been a little more understanding.

However, considering it was about HER parents I think Burnham's reaction was perfectly reasonable from a personal standpoint -- yet as you say, maybe she was a little wrong from a "professional" standpoint.

Contrary to what some people think, Burnham is a protagonist with writer-intended flaws; she isn't perfect, nor is she intended to be. I think we as viewers were supposed to feel some level of understanding for Leland's explanation, even if Burnham wasn't haven't any of it.
 
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I wasn't sure what to make of the notion that the Klingons would use the time machine to destroy their enemies while they couldn't fight back. We're a long way from the honor 'n' glory Klingons of TNG, aren't we? It speaks to the mess Discovery has made of the Klingons that I have no idea if these Klingons would actually do such a thing. I guess the TOS Klingons would, so whatever.
Doesn't bother me too much, aside from Worf and Martok, to most Klingons "honor 'n' glory" seemed to be largely lip service.
 
I couldn't help but think that Culber was upset by the massive funeral they gave Airiam. Did he get one that large? Not onscreen he didn't.

I was initially upset about the autopilot, since I wasn't sure if they were fugitives or not. Turns out some time had passed, everyone was exonerated, the 31 HQ was destroyed. I guess we all missed an episode. Still, autopilot (even on a super-advanced Crossfield) is a weird concept for Star Trek. I'd feel much better if there were a few N.D.s who get to hang out on the bridge in case the Klingons or Harry Mudd or Ferengi decide to show up blasting.

Deleting Airiam's memories got a bit of a "w-why" from me, but it makes sense in retrospect. 1) they knew she was compromised, so who knows if Control was hanging out somewhere in her mindset. 2) they're shooting her into space, so best to shoot a lifeless hulk rather than something that can be dissected and examined by the evil Bynars or something. She's dead, she don't need those memories.

Culber's not yet reinstated as a Doctor (and visibly uneasy at the title, later in the episode), as stated onscreen by Pike, yet he does Michael's brainwave analysis, and then is on hand to resuscitate her (more on that in a bit). I know he's a main character, but this doesn't make sense. Especially in his super-sleek street clothes. Where's Pollard? Or anyone else in the medical department? If he wants busy work, then they should just reinstate Culber, instead of using him (illegally?) as a doctor on multiple occasions.

The scene between Culber and Cornwell was nice, but she's a Vice Admiral, probably *very* busy in the aftermath of Control's "destruction", so it feels more along the lines of "we couldn't afford a therapist character". Assuming this limitation, I would've penned it so Cornwell is the one seeking out Culber (and maybe secretly assessing him on his mental fitness). Maybe we can put that scene earlier and have Cornwell reinstate Culber as a doctor temporarily.

Okay, so supposedly the Red Angel is a future Michael (true reveal at the end of the episode), and then they plan on trapping the Red Angel in order to stop future incursions from the evil AI to end all sentient life or whatever. While Michael's input is valuable... you should probably not be inviting her to your "How do we trap Michael" sessions. That's like having your friend over to help plan his surprise party. He's not going to be surprised.

I was hoping Leland would explain this thought of mine to Michael when she went on and on about how he shouldn't keep secrets from her, the future Red Angel, on how to stop the Red Angel. Instead, completely unsolicited, Leland starts yapping about how he killed* (*caused the death of) her parents. I guess he saved us all from a few episodes of slowly revealing this, although he kinda signed his own death warrant.

I hope Leland gets a massive funeral scene next week, after they dispatch Control's latest escapade in an unseen adventure, and maybe we can finally learn his first name. Or maybe he just comes back with an eyepatch.

Killing Michael was a smart move. I bet Section 31 had thought about that earlier. Would've been better if they hadn't had Culber around and Pike ready to abort at the first sign of a hangnail. They're also kinda putting their faith into the idea of a predestination paradox, a concept that is physically sound, but not always existant in Star Trek time travel.

They should've just told Michael to knock it off with the time travel after the Seven Bursts and report back to the ship and tell them what's up.

But, I know, it's not (entirely) Michael, but her mother, Sonja Sohn. Not sure how this will play out, but great casting.

Also, apparently Control (with Leland's voice) was okay with ordering Tyler to blast away the micro-wormhole, which is supposedly something Control wouldn't want. So Control's either still maintaining his cover, or our heroes are mistaken on Control's motives or mission.

Not as good as the last two episodes, but that's a tall order. We still have to see how they stick the landing, although they definitely were all about moving the narrative forward this episode. Probably mostly necessary cleanup from the showrunner change, so it does bring some hope for next week to shine.
 
Doesn't bother me too much, aside from Worf and Martok, to most Klingons "honor 'n' glory" seemed to be largely lip service.
Yeah -- There was a lot of Klingon political backstabbing and pettiness in TNG for such a self-proclaimed honorable people.
 
IMO, Leland shouldn't be completely dead at this point.
That would completely give away the fact that Control is back and I don't think the AI wan'ts folks to know that yet.
I think it may have implanted some kind of control chip into his head.
:shrug:
 
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IMO, Leland shouldn't be dead at this point.
That would completely give away the fact that Control is back and I don't think the AI wan'ts folks to know that yet.
I think it may have implanted some kind of control chip into his head.
:shrug:
Maybe -- but don't you think he might wonder why his eyes were punctured?
 
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IMO, Leland shouldn't be dead at this point.
That would completely give away the fact that Control is back and I don't think the AI wan'ts folks to know that yet.
I think it may have implanted some kind of control chip into his head.
:shrug:

Perhaps Control recreates Leland in the form of an android? Literally gives Control a face for the rest of the season.

Or, Control does the holography thing with Leland.
 
9/10! Started off as an 7 because in the first five minutes, the two things that I didn't want (Michael being the Angel and an infodump from Section 31 to explain the suit) happened, but it turns out everything else was awesome and it was all a lie! This episode, even with all the important season long reveals...was all about its characters, and hell, those are my favorite episodes.

SMG: Her performances really drive the show for me, and this episode was her best, after her last best, after her last best. She is Michael and I always feel what she's feeling. I love the nuanced microexpressions she pulls off. As Leland was telling her about her parents, this is the first that I can remember her playing it completely blindsided and was knocked all the way back down to the little girl in the closet. Even in her confrontations with Sarek, Amanda, and Spock, whilst caught off guard she could hardly be said to lose control of the situation. Here she looked completely broken...until she snapped out of it and went badass again. The same nuance, I felt in her scene with Spock. Once he accepts her apology, you can see the weight of her childhood pains just evaporate away. That was absolutely lovely. Her apology to Ash was delivered very methodically and nervously, as you could see a lot of things going on in her at once but she had definitely practiced what she was going to say to him at least a couple times. And later we see her lower her guard back down to childhood again when she see's her mom.

Spock and Michael: Just lovely. Their low key argument and bickering during their discussion with Pike and Cornwell, hilarious. And the amused glances between our captain and admiral were equally hilarious. Part of me wishes they were still fighting because that was wonderful. But it works great against their later scene. I have been wondering if they would give Spock some lines delivered in a more 'classic' version of Spock, and this was it for me. He felt so naturally tender in his own subtle way, closer to the version of Spock that I think of when I think of Spock (film era). And when they go back to Pike to discuss their plan, there's this tiny moment where Pike looks at Spock bemused and I read it as, in the middle of this crazy important explanation Pike stopped to think, 'OMG did they just make up???' <333333

Georgiou: I'm really gonna need them to reveal eventually that she wasn't the one that actually bombed her Klingons and she's just taking credit, because I can't stop being on board her redemption arc. I think a lot of us saw the sparks of Captain Georgiou during her one-on-ones with Michael, especially her thing about hurting those they care about with good intentions. That was definitely her playing it more like the Cap. When Michael explains her insane plan, Georgiou is the first (and very quickly) to point out it's insane. It was motherly. I loved it. Her interest in Culber and Stamets relationship is also very interesting to me. I wasn't sure at first if she was just having fun making people uncomfortable, or if she was actively trying to make Culber jealous, and if so....why? Oh wait, we're suppose to like her (and dammit, I do! I totally do!) because that look she gave them later on the planet when Stamets had his breakup shields up, that was definitely the look of an Asian mom thinking, 'SHIT, I GOT SOME MEDDLING TO DO.' (Anecdotal evidence from my own Asian mom)

I'd love to see some whacky sci if twist that says something like the quantum resonance unique to the Mirror Universe affects humans over time and makes them have all the negative traits you see there and, once removed from that setting, you start to be influenced by THIS universe's quantum resonance and lose those traits.

I'd love to see Georgeau start to gravitate back to the original character, with a little vampy mischief still intact.

You and I are in agreement!

Culber: I'm glad they moved Culber's arc quickly in this episode with his conversation with Cornwell. I'm really hoping there is a throwaway line later on in the series about the admiral having the idea of placing counselors on ships, because its nice to finally see some therapy go on with some of these PTSD heroes, even if it was literally a 2 minute session. Very well written and efficient. I've been hoping that their story would move on to 'falling in love for the second first-time' and I think that's whats going to happen. And as a side note, Stamets has the saddest sad face in all of Trek. When he rejects Culber at the end, it was heart wrenching.

Ash: I'm not huge on Ash/Michael but its fine. It's definitely okay. But what I think is funny is how Ash has been that character to go therapy on ppl outside of Cornwell; Ash laying it out to Pike about being a hothead and the reasons why, Ash making Culber see that they aren't that different, and now Ash pointing out to Michael that she takes it out on him because he's the only one she can take it out on without repercussions. It's a surprising, but very nice facet to his character.

For an episode that I'd been waiting for to deliver all the plot points and plot mysteries, it ended up being another fantastically character-driven story and the plot points seemed secondary. I still have questions about the plot but I feel like, given what we've seen all season, that the resolution to the plotty plot will be satisfying.
 
Midquest said:↑
I don't see how that's immature, to be honest. Punching the guy who caused your parents' death and wasn't even going to take responsibility seems like a pretty human and, possibly, merciful reaction.
Maybe I'm just less violently inclined than other people, then, but it wouldn't even occur to me. It honestly just comes across as ridiculous and juvenile.

The death of her parents (at Klingon hands) was a VERY traumatic; and was something she blamed herself for (IE She thought they remained because she wanted to see the Supernova); and she's never been able to get over it and its defined her personality for the last 20+ years.

Bottom line: No, I didn't find her punching out of Leland either immature or out of character for Burnham.

Hell, given his role, I'm surprised she didn't nearly kill him herself. Also, I think Leland thought he deserved it as since he's a lead Section 31 operative, he should be trained to defend himself well; yet he LET her get two shots in. (IMO Shows even Section 31 folks aren't 'evil' per se, they have a sense of justice; so he let Burnham take her two shots at him because he DID feel guilty for what he and Section 31 did to her.)
 
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I will be curious to see why the Red Angel basically drove Spock crazy and conjured this elaborate plot across the universe instead of appearing to Burnham and being like, "Hey, I'm your mom, and I have this time machine."
If the reason for her convoluted plot is as well thought out as L'Rrell's and Voq's plot to somehow infiltrate the Discovery to achieve … whatever the hell they actually tried to achieve then I'm not sure I really want to know. :lol:
 
I will be curious to see why the Red Angel basically drove Spock crazy and conjured this elaborate plot across the universe instead of appearing to Burnham and being like, "Hey, I'm your mom, and I have this time machine."

Why didn't this occur to me? :shrug:
 
The death of her parents (at Klingon hands) was a VERY traumatic; and was something she blamed herself for (IE She thought they remained because she wanted to see the Supernova); and she's never been able to get over it and it's defined her personality for the last 20+ years.

Bottom line: No, I didn't find her punching out of Leland either immature or out of character for Burnham.

Hell, given his role, I'm surprised she didn't nearly kill him herself. Also, I think Leland thought he deserved it as since he's a lead Section 31 operative, he should be trained to defend himself well; yet he LET her get two shots in. (IMO Shows even Section 31 folks aren't 'evil' per se, they have a sense of justice; so he let Burnham take her two shots at him because he DID feel guilty for what he and Section 31 did to her.)
For all we know he's a fucking murderer! How gracious of him to have “a sense of justice” and grant her two punches. :vulcan:
 
Calling it now. Mama Burnham alters history so Michael and spock never become siblings handling the spock never mentioned her plot hole.

Better not. If the show uses time travel shenanigans to revise Michael's backstory, I'll be pissed. It'll stink of the old Reset Button, which spurred a thousand Trekkie rants back in the day.

Besides, as pointed out, Spock has a tendency to withhold information until it is "relevant."
 
I know this much: I'm going to have a hard time at my next eye appointment.

Uh, yeah. lol

But when I saw him go in a room with a little eyeball thing, somehow I knew he wasn't long for this world. But I was expecting like an electroshock or something. The eyeballectomy was pretty damned vicious.
 
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